Location: Montreal's suburb Gender: Zodiac: Chinese Yr:
Posted:
Jan 6, 2013 - 8:23pm
Prodigal_SOB wrote:
I don't believe it either. I'm not sure lead in any form is really a significant factor for that matter. I just thought you were being a little loose with the facts in your rebuttal.
And I agree with you - Human behaviour, brain etc.. is way too complex to simplify to one single element. The human brain is more complex than the universe itself, and we know nothing of the universe.
Location: Montreal's suburb Gender: Zodiac: Chinese Yr:
Posted:
Jan 6, 2013 - 8:17pm
hippiechick wrote:
You are arguing minutiae. btw lead poisoning could have been the reason for the madness of past despotic rulers.
No I'm making a point about the article you posted, whose author's conclusion I find, even if interesting, is mere speculations IMO ;-)I do not believe that the sole removal of lead in fuel is the cause of less violence. There are many other factors, environmental, legal, and cultural, that come into effect.
Yes it is rather common knowledge that powder faces, mascara, paint, etc.. used by the kings and queens and others was not exactly healthy and could have contributed to some of those rulers' dementia or death (like for Queen Elizabeth 1) which was actually not despotic at all but died of possibly lead poisoning nevertheless + some even hypothesized that the Romans lead plumbing may have been the cause of the empire's collapse. But there are only hypothesis. nothing more nothing less. Lead is bad for animals, humans included, that's fact.
However, we could argue that there are other chemicals, bacteria, and viruses that alter behaviours just as much and as bad (sometimes for better) and we are exposed to it every day - ie: toxoplamosis crosses the brain barrier and can make rats sexually excited by cats urine. In humans, it alters brain chemistry, is linked to depression, schizophrenia and other behavioural changes.
Prodigal_SOB
Work is the curse of the drinking class
Location: Back Home Again in Indiana Gender: Zodiac: Chinese Yr:
Posted:
Jan 6, 2013 - 7:48pm
Zukiwi wrote:
Mainly, I do not believe that the removal of lead from gasoline is the primary reason as stated in the article, I believe the removal of lead from most sources and public awareness is what truly helped.
I don't believe it either. I'm not sure lead in any form is really a significant factor for that matter. I just thought you were being a little loose with the facts in your rebuttal.
hippiechick
Did you ever grow anything in the garden of your mind?
Location: topsy turvy land Gender: Zodiac: Chinese Yr:
Posted:
Jan 6, 2013 - 7:37pm
Zukiwi wrote:
True that, you are correct - except for the paint covering the pencil (which I used to chew extensively ;-) ) - I know it has been removed - so was lead fuel - the point in the article was about lead fuel being the culprit of violence and that violence has been reduced ever since lead has been reduced - whereas my point was there were multiple sources of lead poisoning - primarily because we did simply not know it was bad - so it was about everywhere and anywhere. So yes lots of them were removed, still lots remain (some we discover after the fact like the Chinese toys, or alleged natural remedies of Indian and Chinese origins).
Mainly, I do not believe that the removal of lead from gasoline is the primary reason as stated in the article, I believe the removal of lead from most sources and public awareness is what truly helped.
You are arguing minutiae.
btw lead poisoning could have been the reason for the madness of past despotic rulers.
Location: Montreal's suburb Gender: Zodiac: Chinese Yr:
Posted:
Jan 6, 2013 - 7:33pm
Prodigal_SOB wrote:
While pencil leads are still called leads there has not been any lead in them for hundreds of years. Not for safety concerns but because it makes a terrible pencil. Every pencil lead you have ever used is actually made of graphite and maybe a little clay. By law lead was removed from household paint in the US in the 70s though there are some paints for roads and other applications that still have contain lead. To the best of my knowledge lead was never part of any of the alloys used in dental fillings. Mercury was but it is not in wide use anymore.
True that, you are correct - except for the paint covering the pencil (which I used to chew extensively ;-) ) - I know it has been removed - so was lead fuel - the point in the article was about lead fuel being the culprit of violence and that violence has been reduced ever since lead has been reduced - whereas my point was there were multiple sources of lead poisoning - primarily because we did simply not know it was bad - so it was about everywhere and anywhere. So yes lots of them were removed, still lots remain (some we discover after the fact like the Chinese toys, or alleged natural remedies of Indian and Chinese origins).
Mainly, I do not believe that the removal of lead from gasoline is the primary reason as stated in the article, I believe the removal of lead from most sources and public awareness is what truly helped.
Prodigal_SOB
Work is the curse of the drinking class
Location: Back Home Again in Indiana Gender: Zodiac: Chinese Yr:
Posted:
Jan 6, 2013 - 7:07pm
Zukiwi wrote:
It is obvious that lead is absolutely bad for humans. However, I doubt gasoline leaded fuel is the only culprit. There was lead in paint, lead in pencil (and still is) lead in cutlery, and lead in fillings (and still are). I would suspect that lead directly in your mouth has more impact than leaded fuel which we, at least most of us, did not eat.
While pencil leads are still called leads there has not been any lead in them for hundreds of years. Not for safety concerns but because it makes a terrible pencil. Every pencil lead you have ever used is actually made of graphite and maybe a little clay. By law lead was removed from household paint in the US in the 70s though there are some paints for roads and other applications that still have contain lead. To the best of my knowledge lead was never part of any of the alloys used in dental fillings. Mercury was but it is not in wide use anymore.
hippiechick
Did you ever grow anything in the garden of your mind?
Location: topsy turvy land Gender: Zodiac: Chinese Yr:
Posted:
Jan 6, 2013 - 6:25pm
Zukiwi wrote:
It is obvious that lead is absolutely bad for humans. However, I doubt gasoline leaded fuel is the only culprit. There was lead in paint, lead in pencil (and still is) lead in cutlery, and lead in fillings (and still are). I would suspect that lead directly in your mouth has more impact than leaded fuel which we, at least most of us, did not eat.
Well, wherever the lead was coming from, it still seems to have had a huge impact, as shown in the graph.
It is obvious that lead is absolutely bad for humans. However, I doubt gasoline leaded fuel is the only culprit. There was lead in paint, lead in pencil (and still is) lead in cutlery, and lead in fillings (and still are). I would suspect that lead directly in your mouth has more impact than leaded fuel which we, at least most of us, did not eat.
hippiechick
Did you ever grow anything in the garden of your mind?
Location: topsy turvy land Gender: Zodiac: Chinese Yr:
Posted:
Jan 6, 2013 - 4:49pm
Didn't really know where to put this, but it's mind blowing! Heard them talking about this on Chris Hayes this morning:
It's an interesting conclusion but highly controversial. If you take the current incision rates of the Colorado R. the canyon should be about 6 M years old. Unless something dramatic occurred to alter these rates then the 70 M year old estimate is too great. Also, there have been quite a few studies conducted to look at the age of the sediments coming out of the western end of the canyon. None of them can find ages that are much greater than about 5 to 6 My. This is nothing new, the debate about young vs. old canyon has been ongoing for quite a while. Here's an article about the skeptical side of the story
