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RAFT  »   Baseball, anyone?
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zevon  (Red Sox Nation.)
Oct 13, 2005 - 9:23pm

Drachenadler wrote:


Here's a few, if Hippie will uncurl his clutching fingers from them:


So how's things with the Hipster Drach?
Working hard???

 
zevon  (Red Sox Nation.)
Oct 13, 2005 - 9:22pm

Curry wrote:


Indeed I second that one. Pass me a beer willya already?


By the way, Welcome Curry!
Always nice to see another sports geek (my self-description) around.

 
Curry  (Home)
Oct 13, 2005 - 8:54pm

Drachenadler wrote:
There usually isn't. I love that they leave it all on the ice, especially in the playoffs. The NHL playoffs are THE sport to watch as nothing compares to the player intensity, not even the SuperBowl. When an official can determine the outcome of a game due to a wrong or bad call, something has to change. In the NHL, Rome lives!!!!


Indeed I second that one. Pass me a beer willya already?

 
Curry  (Home)
Oct 13, 2005 - 8:47pm

Drachenadler wrote:
A grand idea! Let's boot the refs out of the NFL while we're at it, and bring robots into the NBA. That would be an improvement.

The only officials who allow the frikkin' players to play are those in the NHL, especially in the play-offs. They have a better understanding of their sport than their ticky-tak wussy-footed counterparts. Unless someone's head is in the net, they don't call it. As it should be. No blood, no call.


Someone (Zevon?) wrote below about how hard it is to watch NBA and I agree, it's interminable. The refs call anything unless it's on a superstar (O'Neal, e.g.), who can get away with murder. Terrible inconsistency.

But hockey? You can't be serious to let them keep going, can you? There won't be anyone left standing!


 
zevon  (Red Sox Nation.)
Oct 13, 2005 - 8:32pm

Curry wrote:


Please, no high-tech sensors in the game. Might as well take the umpires out of it completely.

It's a game and it's not perfect; it's not the game's fault that millions (of $) are literally riding on the swings of the bat.

Peer review is much better. The umps who get it right stay in the game. The umps who don't have a clear strike zone (and the players know who they are) are out.


I'm not for teching out sports totally, but these umps are the cream of the crop, simply the best available. There's not an endless supply waiting in line that can do the job as well or better.
Simply put, the cream of the crop ain't good enough, so what can be done to help them?
The millions aren't only for the players/owners/clubs either - there are fortunes wagered on games by the general public, both through legit casinos and websites and through bookies.
Wonder how much was lost by Angel backers last night?
I'm betting it's 9 figures.

 
Curry  (Home)
Oct 13, 2005 - 8:25pm

zevon wrote:
There are many relatively simple (these days) technological things that could be done to ensure correct calls other than instant replay.
For instance, is a pitched ball over the plate or not?
...


Please, no high-tech sensors in the game. Might as well take the umpires out of it completely.

It's a game and it's not perfect; it's not the game's fault that millions (of $) are literally riding on the swings of the bat.

Peer review is much better. The umps who get it right stay in the game. The umps who don't have a clear strike zone (and the players know who they are) are out.


 
zevon  (Red Sox Nation.)
Oct 13, 2005 - 7:56pm

Drachenadler wrote:


No, IR doesn't ensure they'll get it right, but it gives them an added chance to do so. IR has its own limitations i.e. camera angles, obstructions, technical inadequacies, lighting, bad framing, etc. And yes, the human element does not guarantee what actually happened on the field is what will be adjudicated in the form of correct calls. But it does provide another impartial layer of the possibility of getting it right.

We've all seen clearly irrefutable evidence to overturn or confirm a call on the field and have it misinterpreted or called incorrectly anyway. But all in all, I'd rather have it than not. NFL & NHL both use it.

NBA ? Well, that's an entire mess all its own and the officiating is the main reason I NEVER watch a regular season game and won't even stop on the channel until late May and June. Then at least the higher caliber of the playoff game rids us of having to watch perennially lousy teams like Golden State, Denver, and a bunch of others. The refs in that sport are 99% dreadful and the personal bias is nowhere more evident than in that overly popular sport. That coupled with the archaic and silly free throw , the endless fouls in the last two minutes, the phantom calls and the whistled disruption of the rhythm of the game make it, for me, completely unwatchable.

But please, ask me what I really think.


There are many relatively simple (these days) technological things that could be done to ensure correct calls other than instant replay.
For instance, is a pitched ball over the plate or not?
I see so many pitches that are 3+ inches outside or in called strikes it's pathetic - ESPN's K Zone illustrates this wonderfully, although they seem to attempt to not embarass umps with it - prolly a condition of the MLB TV contract. The usual scenario is that the catcher sets up 6 inches outside, and if the pitcher hits his glove or the catcher frames it well, the ump often calls a strike.
One simple solution is to put some sort of material in the windings of the ball which would activate sensors installed at the front of home plate - ball crosses over the plate, light goes on (or something), ball doesn't cross, no light, = no strike. It would be tough to sensorize the pitch height due to different batter heights - too much tweaking between batters - but at least the ump could focus solely on the height of the pitch and take a hell of a lot of guesswork out. OK , pitch is at batter's knees, height good, got a light, STEEE-RIKE!! Bottom line is, if it ain't over the plate, it ain't a strike!
Another personal bitch of mine is the check swing, home plate ump doesn't know if the batter "went around", catcher appeals to first or third base ump, they make the call. These umps are roughly 90 feet away from home plate and are not at a good side angle, but rather facing the batter. I believe about half of these calls are friggin' guesswork. Make the rule that if the bat touches or crosses the front edge of the plate, it's a strike. Again, sensors. Get it right for chrissakes, no replay necessary, no arguments taken. Take this as far as you want - sensor the foul lines, the yellow lines at the top of the wall-another thing that drives me batshit - make it over the wall for a Home Run, not hitting the yellow line at the top - what moron came up with that ?
None of these enhancements would have done diddly for last night's dry screwing of the Angels, but all would make for accurate calls in important areas. I still think the Halos have a legit protest, but God knows how that whole process works...

Oh, and football? Who doesn't love the short yardage pileup at the goal line with the running back or QB trying to smash the ball over the goal line? With about a dozen 350 pound behemoths all trying to either push their guy over the goal line or push the opponent back, I don't know how the hell the ref's can see the player, never mind the damn ball, to judge whether or not the runner "breaks the plane".
Sensors.
Throw 'em on the sidelines too, get those pesky out of bounds calls right.
Some of this is way to techy for purists, but the bottom line is, replay doesn't always get things right-remember Testaverde getting stopped a good yard short last year, awarded a TD?
Changes such as these would not eliminate all shitty calls, but it would take the too damn close to tell factor out of balls and strikes, first downs (lousy spots suck!), TD's, etc, and would allow the ref's to be more cognizant of other important things happening on the field.
Like balls in the dirt...

And Drach, I gotta fully agree, the NBA has become to dull to watch.
Seems the only part worth seeing for the last few years is the last half hour, or in clock terms, the last 2 minutes. I can't sit through it either.

Lewis Black out...

 
ScottFromWyoming  (Powell)
Oct 13, 2005 - 1:43pm

pdhski wrote:
runner hit by batted ball with bases loded = out but batter credited with hit?


*bing*
*bing*
*bing*
*bing*
*bing*
We have a winnah! Tell 'im what he wins, Jay!

"An autographed picture of Randy Mantooth! "

Yay!

 
pdhski  (O-town)
Oct 13, 2005 - 1:29pm

runner hit by batted ball with bases loded = out but batter credited with hit?

 
Beanie
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:49pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:


FC is not a hit.


Well then....fine.

I'll bet it was a silly prize, anyway.

 
ScottFromWyoming  (Powell)
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:48pm

Drachenadler wrote:

But thanks for the article, I'll read it shortly.


So in the NFL, you always agree with the refs when they come back from reviewing the instant replay? About 75% of the time the video replays are not that clear to me.

 
ScottFromWyoming  (Powell)
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:45pm

Beanie wrote:


Sorry...I put in the scenario beloW:

Three singles to load the bases and then three fielder-choice plays at home plate? Or don't those get scored as "hits"?


FC is not a hit.

 
pdhski  (O-town)
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:44pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Very good! You got the first 5. There's one more possible hit...


hmmm

 
Beanie
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:38pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:


I can see that I needed to stipulate that you have to describe a scenario for these hits. Six is right but it would be a bigger fluke than last night's debacle.

And for our purposes here, "hit" means official scorer calls it a "hit," not just "batted the ball somewhere."


Sorry...I put in the scenario beloW:

Three singles to load the bases and then three fielder-choice plays at home plate? Or don't those get scored as "hits"?

 
ScottFromWyoming  (Powell)
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:37pm

pdhski wrote:


5 - if first two are picked off. then 3 more to load bases. Next hit scores a run. Infield ball and thrown out at home would be ruled fielder's choice - not a hit. Yes?

Very good! You got the first 5. There's one more possible hit...

 
pdhski  (O-town)
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:35pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Rule-book trivia:

What's the most hits a team can get in an inning without scoring ?


5 - if first two are picked off. then 3 more to load bases. Next hit scores a run. Infield ball and thrown out at home would be ruled fielder's choice - not a hit. Yes?

 
ScottFromWyoming  (Powell)
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:34pm

Beanie wrote:


Six?

I'm sure I'm wrong.

What do I win if I'm right, though?


I can see that I needed to stipulate that you have to describe a scenario for these hits. Six is right but it would be a bigger fluke than last night's debacle.

And for our purposes here, "hit" means official scorer calls it a "hit," not just "batted the ball somewhere."

 
ScottFromWyoming  (Powell)
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:30pm

Drachenadler wrote:
Terrible call, reversed by the ump himself, and yet another reason MLB has got to come into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming, if need be, and institute instant replay.

Bad calls should not be allowed to change the outcome, or potential outcome, of a game, especially a playoff game after these teams have already endured a far too long and sluggardly season to get there.

He was out . Everyone knows it. Everyone except those nincumpoops who are paid far too much to make the right calls, that is.


King Kaufman's Sports Daily
 
Beanie
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:28pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Rule-book trivia:

What's the most hits a team can get in an inning without scoring ?


Six? Three singles to load the bases and then three fielder's choice plays at home plate?

I'm sure I'm wrong.

What do I win if I'm right, though?

 
ScottFromWyoming  (Powell)
Oct 13, 2005 - 12:23pm

Rule-book trivia:

What's the most hits a team can get in an inning without scoring ?

 
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