RP Listener Forum - Radio Paradise - eclectic commercial free Internet radio
[ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Celebrity Deaths - DaveInVA - Mar 3, 2015 - 6:15pm
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - bokey - Mar 3, 2015 - 6:13pm
 
What makes you smile? - bokey - Mar 3, 2015 - 6:10pm
 
Medical Questions - PoundPuppy - Mar 3, 2015 - 4:38pm
 
Things You Thought Today - kurtster - Mar 3, 2015 - 4:30pm
 
What do you want to drive? - ScottFromWyoming - Mar 3, 2015 - 3:50pm
 
How's the weather? - triskele - Mar 3, 2015 - 3:37pm
 
Live Music - RichardPrins - Mar 3, 2015 - 3:32pm
 
Coffee - Steely_D - Mar 3, 2015 - 3:31pm
 
Fox Spews - Steely_D - Mar 3, 2015 - 3:29pm
 
ouchies - Antigone - Mar 3, 2015 - 3:13pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - Prodigal_SOB - Mar 3, 2015 - 2:12pm
 
how do you feel right now? - K_Love - Mar 3, 2015 - 2:09pm
 
Those Crazy Condiments - ScottN - Mar 3, 2015 - 1:58pm
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - Mar 3, 2015 - 1:46pm
 
Music Videos - Proclivities - Mar 3, 2015 - 1:13pm
 
Crimes and Misdemeanors (not bad ones, mostly amusing) - ScottFromWyoming - Mar 3, 2015 - 12:46pm
 
What Makes You Laugh? - Proclivities - Mar 3, 2015 - 12:18pm
 
Things that piss me off - meower - Mar 3, 2015 - 12:03pm
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Mar 3, 2015 - 11:34am
 
Helpful emergency signs - mrtuba9 - Mar 3, 2015 - 11:31am
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - oldviolin - Mar 3, 2015 - 11:31am
 
The Chomsky / Zinn Reader - RichardPrins - Mar 3, 2015 - 11:08am
 
Birthday wishes - ScottFromWyoming - Mar 3, 2015 - 11:01am
 
George Bush's War: How many dead now? - RichardPrins - Mar 3, 2015 - 10:58am
 
Celebrity Face Recognition - oldviolin - Mar 3, 2015 - 10:10am
 
Appliances! Favorites and Duds. - cc_rider - Mar 3, 2015 - 9:57am
 
Marijuana: Baked News. - kurtster - Mar 3, 2015 - 9:18am
 
North Africa/Middle East Unrest - Proclivities - Mar 3, 2015 - 9:05am
 
Not all BUGS are mean't to be squashed - Steve - Mar 3, 2015 - 9:04am
 
On second thought... - Proclivities - Mar 3, 2015 - 8:56am
 
Republican Wingnut Freak of the Day - Proclivities - Mar 3, 2015 - 8:42am
 
Favorite Quotes - sirdroseph - Mar 3, 2015 - 8:17am
 
RP Daily Trivia Challenge - Proclivities - Mar 3, 2015 - 7:33am
 
Ask the Libertarian - sirdroseph - Mar 3, 2015 - 7:00am
 
Robots - Proclivities - Mar 3, 2015 - 6:41am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - Beez - Mar 3, 2015 - 6:21am
 
WTF??!! - Coaxial - Mar 3, 2015 - 6:13am
 
What's going on with the Psychopoodle now? - Coaxial - Mar 3, 2015 - 6:10am
 
DAMN - lily34 - Mar 3, 2015 - 5:26am
 
Chinese New Year - sirdroseph - Mar 3, 2015 - 4:59am
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos; Please Limit to 510 ... - Alchemist - Mar 2, 2015 - 10:31pm
 
Regarding dogs - oldviolin - Mar 2, 2015 - 9:56pm
 
Procrastinators Anonymous - Coaxial - Mar 2, 2015 - 6:50pm
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - Coaxial - Mar 2, 2015 - 6:48pm
 
Guns - kurtster - Mar 2, 2015 - 5:06pm
 
NASA & other news from space - RichardPrins - Mar 2, 2015 - 4:07pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - Antigone - Mar 2, 2015 - 3:59pm
 
Best Song Comments. - haresfur - Mar 2, 2015 - 3:18pm
 
Beer - oldviolin - Mar 2, 2015 - 2:51pm
 
what makes you frown - ScottFromWyoming - Mar 2, 2015 - 2:39pm
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - ScottN - Mar 2, 2015 - 2:11pm
 
Graphic designers, ho's! - Proclivities - Mar 2, 2015 - 1:25pm
 
Canada - RichardPrins - Mar 2, 2015 - 1:11pm
 
(Big) Media Watch - RichardPrins - Mar 2, 2015 - 1:05pm
 
What's on SFW's PSD? - Proclivities - Mar 2, 2015 - 12:58pm
 
The Obituary Page - ScottFromWyoming - Mar 2, 2015 - 11:41am
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - RichardPrins - Mar 2, 2015 - 10:57am
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - oldviolin - Mar 2, 2015 - 10:43am
 
Oklahoma Questions and Points of Interest - Red_Dragon - Mar 2, 2015 - 9:59am
 
Books read recently - ColdMiser - Mar 2, 2015 - 9:34am
 
Those Lovable Policemen - meower - Mar 2, 2015 - 8:12am
 
Triskele and The Grateful Dead - MsJudi - Mar 2, 2015 - 8:12am
 
Art Show - Proclivities - Mar 2, 2015 - 8:03am
 
Words that should be put on the substitutes bench for a year - olivertwist - Mar 2, 2015 - 7:10am
 
Let's Rip - CD's - DaveInVA - Mar 2, 2015 - 7:09am
 
Museum Of Bad Album Covers - Proclivities - Mar 2, 2015 - 6:51am
 
The Global War on Terror - kurtster - Mar 2, 2015 - 6:41am
 
The Image Post - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Mar 1, 2015 - 11:22pm
 
Private messages in a public forum - Steely_D - Mar 1, 2015 - 10:44pm
 
Image That Goes With a Song Lyric - Alexandra - Mar 1, 2015 - 6:27pm
 
What are you doing RIGHT NOW? - Antigone - Mar 1, 2015 - 5:29pm
 
What Are You Going To Do Today? - lily34 - Mar 1, 2015 - 4:19pm
 
Name My Band - haresfur - Mar 1, 2015 - 2:11pm
 
• • •  What's For Dinner ? • • •  - olivertwist - Mar 1, 2015 - 1:46pm
 
(a public service of RP)
Index » Regional/Local » Africa/Middle East » Egypt Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 28, 29, 30  Next
Post to this Topic
RichardPrins

RichardPrins Avatar



Posted: Feb 4, 2015 - 2:49pm

The Killing of Shaimaa el-Sabbagh: Reporter's Notebook - NYTimes.com

(...) Few in Egypt expect the demonstrations or bombings to change the military-backed government any time soon. Public debate here is dominated by pro-government voices. President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has ruled by decree without a Parliament or other elected officials.

At the moment, there is no visible mechanism for a public outcry to change public policy. (Parliamentary elections are promised next month, but under rules experts say will most likely produce strong support for Mr. Sisi.)

When Shaimaa el-Sabbagh, 31, was killed at a small demonstration in downtown Cairo on Jan. 24, I thought, is this news? Sondos Reda Abu Bakr, 17, had just been killed by the police at a protest in Alexandria. The next day was the fourth anniversary of the start of the Arab Spring revolt in Egypt, and I had a feeling many more people would die before the day was over. About 50 had died in clashes with the police at demonstrations on the previous anniversary, in 2014. (In the end, the protests this year were smaller and about 20 were killed, along with three policemen.) So I went back to spending Saturday afternoon with my family.

But some ghosts find a way of lingering. In Tehran, the killing of Neda Agha-Soltan, 26, by Iranian soldiers in the spring of 2009 turned her into a symbol and cause for a season of antigovernment protests. In Egypt, the beating to death of Khaled Said, 28, by the Alexandria police in June 2010 planted a seed that germinated into the revolt that toppled Hosni Mubarak in February 2011. (“We are all Khaled Said” became a rallying cry.) Both lived on in the public memory because of photographs and videos shared over social media, surviving as icons long after others were forgotten.

Ms. Sabbagh, too, had died in front of cameras.

By Sunday afternoon the pictures were everywhere on Egyptian social media: especially the image of her friend grasping her waist, his head pressed against her abdomen, blood streaking down her face, a distant look in her eye. Her death had eclipsed so many others. My wife was transfixed. My editor, Michael Slackman, had covered Iran and immediately thought of Neda Agha-Soltan. I thought of Khaled Said. Even the pro-government talk shows were taking up the subject, if only to suggest that someone besides the police might have been responsible.

Then I learned she had been poet, and the author of a verse about a vision of the crucifixion in a similar street not far from where she died in downtown Cairo. (...)


RichardPrins

RichardPrins Avatar



Posted: Apr 28, 2014 - 11:56pm

A judge at a mass trial in Egypt has recommended the death penalty for 683 people - including Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Badie.

The defendants faced charges over an attack on a police station in Minya in 2013 in which a policeman was killed.

However, the judge also commuted to life terms 492 death sentences out of 529 passed in March in a separate case.

Also on Monday, a court banned a youth group that helped ignite the uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak in 2011.

The decision passed in Cairo to outlaw the April 6 pro-democracy movement was based on a complaint that accused the group of "tarnishing the image" of Egypt and colluding with foreign parties. (...)

Authorities have cracked down harshly on Islamists since President Mohammed Morsi, who belongs to the Muslim Brotherhood, was removed by the military in July.

Hundreds have been killed and thousands arrested.

The verdict was the first against Mr Badie in the several trials he faces on various charges along with Mr Morsi himself and other Brotherhood leaders.

Of the 683 sentenced on Monday, only about 50 are in detention but the others have a right to a retrial if they hand themselves in.

The group were accused of involvement in the murder and attempted murder of policemen in Minya province on 14 August, the day police killed hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood supporters in clashes in Cairo.

Defence lawyers boycotted the last session, branding it "farcical."

The final judgement on the sentencing of the 529 Muslim Brotherhood supporters accused of attacking another police station in the same province on the same day means 37 will now face the death penalty.

Defence lawyer Khaled Elkomy said 60% of those defendants, including teachers and doctors, have evidence that "proves they were not present" when that station was attacked, a statement released by human rights group Avaaz said.

Amnesty International warned that Egypt's judiciary "risks becoming just another part of the authorities' repressive machinery".

"The court has displayed a complete contempt for the most basic principles of a fair trial and has utterly destroyed its credibility," Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, the group's Middle East and North Africa deputy director, said in a statement.

The government had defended the court's handling of the first mass case, insisting that the sentences were passed only "after careful study."

At least 1,000 opponents of the military-installed regime have been sentenced since December.

The authorities have designated the Brotherhood a terrorist group, blaming it for a series of bombings and attacks. The group has strongly denied the accusations.


RichardPrins

RichardPrins Avatar



Posted: Mar 13, 2014 - 8:43am

Egypt ex-PM: presidential poll will be fixed
Ahmed Shafik says in leaked tape that no one other than army chief, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, can win the "farce" of a vote.


From last July: Morsi Spurned Deals, Seeing Military as Tamed
ScottFromWyoming
Psycho. Poodle
ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Pisces
Chinese Yr: Tiger


Posted: Nov 7, 2013 - 5:46am

 
 
My aunt is in Alexandria, going on this rally...
 

Day 1:Noon: start from Alexandria
Ride for 225 km (Estimated time: 4.5 hours)
PM: arrive to Cairo and overnight
  
Day 2:Early AM: start from Cairo
Ride for 365 km (Estimated time: 7.5 hours)
PM: arrive to Bahareya Oasis and overnight
  
Day 3:Early AM: start from Bahareya Oasis
Ride for 185 km (Estimated time: 4 hours)
PM: arrive to Farafra Oasis and overnight
PM: scooter Maintenance
 
 
  
Day 4:Early AM: start from Farafra
Ride for 275 km (Estimated time: 5.5 hours)
PM: arrive Dakhla Oasis and overnight
  
Day 5:Early AM: start Dakhla Oasis
Ride for 225 km (Estimated time: 4.5 hours)
PM: arrive to Kharga Oasis and overnight
  
Day 6:Early AM: start from Kharga Oasis
Ride for 350 km (Estimated time: 7 hours)
PM: arrive to Luxor and overnight
  
Day 7:Early AM: start from Luxor
Ride for 290 km (Estimated time: 6 hours)
PM: arrive to Hurghada and overnight
  
Day 8:Early AM: start from Hurghada
Ride for 330 km (Estimated time: 7 hours)
PM: arrive to Sokhna and overnight
  
Day 9:Early AM: start from Sokhna
Ride for 155 km (Estimated time: 3 hours)
Noon: arrive to Cairo
Noon: Closing ceremony under the Pyramids
 


RichardPrins

RichardPrins Avatar



Posted: Oct 7, 2013 - 9:44am

 kurtster wrote:
So what is the coverage of Egypt like up north ?
 
I can't really say, 'cause I only use on-line sources (from various places).
kurtster
ignore the kitteh behind the kurtain
kurtster Avatar

Location: counting flowers on the wall ...
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Libra
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Oct 7, 2013 - 7:24am

 steeler wrote:


Front page of Washington Post today:  Big color photo of clash in Cairo that left 50 dead.
          
 
Grimm news.   Haven't turned on the tele today. 

You have local access to some great newspapers. 

Nothing around here worth subscribing to, nor room for in the budget.


meower

meower Avatar

Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female
Zodiac: Gemini


Posted: Oct 7, 2013 - 7:19am

Guess it depends on where you get your news from..... They talked about Egypt on NPR  this morning. Same story that Steeler is talking about.


steeler
About three bricks shy of a load
steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Oct 7, 2013 - 7:13am

 kurtster wrote:

So what is the coverage of Egypt like up north ?

It has all but dropped of the radar here.  Evidently our MSM doesn't want to cover it anymore because it clearly represents a massive failure of Obama's judgment and foreign (lack of) policy.

 

Front page of Washington Post today:  Big color photo of clash in Cairo that left 50 dead.
          


kurtster
ignore the kitteh behind the kurtain
kurtster Avatar

Location: counting flowers on the wall ...
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Libra
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Oct 7, 2013 - 5:01am

 RichardPrins wrote:


 
So what is the coverage of Egypt like up north ?

It has all but dropped of the radar here.  Evidently our MSM doesn't want to cover it anymore because it clearly represents a massive failure of Obama's judgment and foreign (lack of) policy.
RichardPrins

RichardPrins Avatar



Posted: Oct 6, 2013 - 8:34pm


RichardPrins

RichardPrins Avatar



Posted: Oct 2, 2013 - 11:48pm

What Happened to Egypt’s Liberals After the Coup?
Precious few political parties have spoken out against the military or its assault on the Muslim Brotherhood.

The turning point came on August 14, when the military and security forces brutally cleared the two mass sit-ins in Cairo that formed the epicenter of support for the ousted president. Hundreds of people were killed in what Human Rights Watch describes as “the most serious incident of mass unlawful killings in modern Egyptian history.”

The National Salvation Front leadership, which includes former presidential candidates Hamdeen Sabahi and Amr Moussa, put out a statement applauding the raids. Two days later, Dawoud—who describes himself as a “leftist, not a liberal”—resigned as the group’s spokesperson.

“We wanted a political deal, we wanted Morsi removed, but we didn’t want to suppress or kill them or consider them an outlawed organization,” he says, sitting on a heavily cracked black leather couch in the offices of Al-Ahram Weekly, the state-owned English-language publication where he has worked as a journalist since 1996. After resigning, he says, “even some close friends called me a Brotherhood sympathizer, a secret cell, a traitor and a US agent.”

Dawoud’s story is emblematic of Egypt’s convoluted political landscape, whose fault lines have shifted and rearranged in the aftermath of Morsi’s overthrow and the subsequent brutal crackdown on the Brotherhood and its allies.

Opposition to Morsi grew throughout his time in office, eventually stretching across nearly every sector of Egyptian society. It also had grassroots support, manifested in more than 9,000 protests and strikes during his year-long rule that culminated in calls for early presidential elections and the unprecedented June 30 mobilization.

His opponents included a broad swath of political and social movements, often characterized by conflicting ideologies and grievances. It included revolutionary activists, labor unions, human rights advocates, the Coptic Church, intransigent state institutions, former Mubarak regime members and sidelined business elites as well as the formal opposition—the flock of non-Islamist political parties and figures routinely lumped together as “liberals,” despite the fact that many of them have rejected any notion of political pluralism, a defining characteristic of liberalism.


sirdroseph
Endeavor to Perservere
sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Sep 12, 2013 - 4:55pm

Watching Jon Stewart and I had heard about the GOP ummmm delegation that was sent to Egypt to address the Egyptians directly.  They shouldn't let these people out of their own homes much less to represent our country in any way on their state supported television.  My God, what the Egyptians must think of us!!{#Eek}


RichardPrins

RichardPrins Avatar



Posted: Aug 21, 2013 - 11:51pm

Egypt's Coup and the Saudi Opposition - By Madawi Al-Rasheed | The Middle East Channel

It is ironic that a state claiming to rule according to Islamic principles, Saudi Arabia, fears the rise to power of Islamists — both at home and in neighboring countries. One regional Islamist trend worries the Saudi leadership, the Muslim Brotherhood which has decided to engage in politics through elections and the democratic process.

Saudi legitimacy is based on an appropriation of Islamic symbols such as claims that "our constitution is the Quran" and the application of sharia. The Saudi leadership fears losing its unique Islamic credentials as Islamists in other countries reach power. It wants to remain the sole Islamic model in the Arab region. The possibility of neighboring states combining Islamist politics with democracy threatens the Saudi model and seriously alarms the Saudi state. 

The Saudi government made it clear that it does not accept the rule of Islamists in Egypt or elsewhere, for that matter. Riyadh had in the past coexisted and even cooperated and manipulated the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood but since September 11, 2001 it turned against them when deceased Minister of Interior Prince Nayef held the Muslim Brotherhood responsible for terrorism in Saudi Arabia.

Hours after General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi deposed Mohamed Morsi on July 3, King Abdullah congratulated the Egyptian interim government and promised $5 billion in aid and subsidies, thus indicating his support for the change that led to removing the Muslim Brotherhood from power. (...)


sirdroseph
Endeavor to Perservere
sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Aug 8, 2013 - 8:17am

We should cancel Mccain and Graham's passport's and not let them go anywhere anymore.  Mccain is senile and Graham is just a plain ol' ignoramoose.{#Doh}


sirdroseph
Endeavor to Perservere
sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Jul 9, 2013 - 9:29am

People in Egypt are a lot more savvy of our politics than we could ever imagine, this from the streets of Egypt:


sirdroseph
Endeavor to Perservere
sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Jul 8, 2013 - 10:33am

 ricguy wrote:

a future leader ...at 0:42 mark ...'kinda says it all ...interviewer asks ...  " who thought you all this?" (caption) {#Neutral} hmmm

 

Yes, I heard that too.  I think that is more of a language thing.  Remember the interviewer is Egyptian as well.  
ricguy
Feelin' green all over again.
ricguy Avatar

Location: between gigs...in the OC, CA
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Gemini
Chinese Yr: Buffalo


Posted: Jul 8, 2013 - 10:21am

 sirdroseph wrote:
This kid is fantastic.  More reason to quit supporting only the military aspects of these countries for our own means, the people know what they want they will just have to work it out for themselves.  We have nothing to teach them or offer them except for military might and that is not the answer.  If there were a sure way to get humanitarian and social aid directly to the people then I am all for it, but that is not what we are doing and I am not even sure if it is possible.  Our leaders our arrogant preaching democracy to these countries, they already know what Democracy is and they know we speak with forked tongue.

 
a future leader ...at 0:42 mark ...'kinda says it all ...interviewer asks ...  " who thought you all this?" (caption) {#Neutral} hmmm


sirdroseph
Endeavor to Perservere
sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Jul 8, 2013 - 10:01am

This kid is fantastic.  More reason to quit supporting only the military aspects of these countries for our own means, the people know what they want they will just have to work it out for themselves.  We have nothing to teach them or offer them except for military might and that is not the answer.  If there were a sure way to get humanitarian and social aid directly to the people then I am all for it, but that is not what we are doing and I am not even sure if it is possible.  Our leaders our arrogant preaching democracy to these countries, they already know what Democracy is and they know we speak with forked tongue.




kurtster
ignore the kitteh behind the kurtain
kurtster Avatar

Location: counting flowers on the wall ...
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Libra
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Jul 8, 2013 - 5:39am

 Lazy8 wrote:
If I ever found myself in agreement with Glenn Beck it would give me pause, but I used him as an example of someone with bellicose opinions and weak understanding, Misreading current events isn't the problem, it's a symptom. Beck convinced himself of an obviously false view of the world (if indeed he actually believes what he says) by selecting the sources he paid attention to. Anything that didn't fit his predetermined view of how a foreign culture works was ignored.

Glenn Beck is a demagogue with axes to grind and an audience with prejudices to pander to. You aren't. If you want to understand how the world works you need to make that understanding a priority over having your prejudices validated.

 
If I agree with Beck (or anyone else for that matter) on something, it's only because he / they validates a personal prejudice ?  Sorry, but I would have to respectfully disagree with that.  That is similar to stating that because one votes for a certain candidate, the voter agrees with everything the candidate stands for.

Edit:  personally speaking, I align myself most with those who share my views on securing our borders.  That is my primary issue, which is no different from those who see other issues, such as abortion and women's rights as their sole determinent for supporting anyone politically.  If we do not maintain our sovereignty, then all the laws on the books mean nothing, because there is no country to protect those rights so many cherish.  Open borders destroy the rule of law and the rights we posess.


Yes, I see another way: treating the other countries of the world not as providers of what we want from them but as neighbors. If all we see when we look at the middle east is oil guarded by hostile savages then we'll deserve the enemies we'll make there.

We don't need a way out of the middle east, we need a way forward. That will require us seeing the people there much like us, with similar aspirations and needs, and not just the boogeymen you're so afraid of. Even if we could produce enough oil to let us ignore the rest of the world in our lifetimes that world would still be there, in all its real complexity, defying and confounding simplistic visions of it.

It's more work to actually try to understand another culture rather than treat it as if it conformed to our stereotypes, but it's worth it.


Good fences make for good neighbors in many instances.  Not everyone can get along together peacefully.  Some will never get along.  The US (our leaders / government) need to get away from the position that we can solve everyone's problems.  It is arrogant for us to believe that our way of governing is a one size fits all solution (not ignoring the fact that we have 50 different ways of governing under the umbrella of the USA), just as the Islamists fundamentalist's view Sharia as a one size fits all solution.  Clearly, many Egyptians would agree with my take on Sharia.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the US withdrawing its military presence from the Middle East and letting those who are dependent on their resources taking over the problems inherent with securing those resources.  It would cause those dependent to rethink their positions.  Take Lybia as an example.  We had made our peace with Qadaffy and were getting along nicely with him.  Yet those in Europe were having problems with him and his oil of which they were dependent.  The EU was and is incapable of mounting the kind of military action needed to have their way.  So they called up Obama and our military to do the heavy lifting.  What did we have at stake there ?  What were our national interests there ?  None that I am aware of.  Oh and we are still waiting for an explanation of what happened in Benghazi. 

What Holiday have we just celebrated ?  IIRC, it was the signing of the Declaration of Independence.  Not the declaration of dependence.  The Carter Doctrine was a declaration of dependence on the Middle East.  Its time we got our butts out of there and let those who live there sort things out amongst themselves.  How long did Yugoslavia last ?  It was a forced merger of many divergent interests under the leadership of one dictator.  It fell apart upon his death, leaving centuries old issues to manifest themselves all over again.  It is foolish to believe that we or anyone else can impose a solution to the problems over there.

The Middle East has leverage on us.  To truly become energy independent takes away that leverage.  We can deal with them on our terms, not their terms if we still have any needs there.  Other than oil, I see no needs there.  Once we have achieved independence from Middle Eastern oil, we can begin looking at them like neighbors, but not until then.  As it is, we now only get about 10% of our oil from the Middle East.  Why should we be the ones who primarily bear the burden of blood and treasure when we get so little of our resources from there ?  Let those most dependent bear the tremendous burden.

Let's face it.  The Middle Eastern countries need to be able to sell their oil just as much as those dependent need to buy it.  The problems will resolve themselves, given the chance, without US involvement.  Maybe, just maybe, it would make it a better place for all if they solved their own problems, their own way.


Lazy8
human
Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2013 - 10:14pm

kurtster wrote:
My views on the Middle East were formed before I became aware of Beck's quite frankly.  Yes, I do agree with Beck on some things, but hardly all things.  Is there something wrong with agreeing with Beck on some things ?  My perceptions are in flux, as they always are.  Nothing is carved in stone when it comes to politics.  Again, my current views on foreign policy most closely resemble Ron Paul's and vis a vis to Rand Paul's.  And the ones protesting Morsi have basically opposed his presidency from day one.  That aspect has not changed.

If I ever found myself in agreement with Glenn Beck it would give me pause, but I used him as an example of someone with bellicose opinions and weak understanding, Misreading current events isn't the problem, it's a symptom. Beck convinced himself of an obviously false view of the world (if indeed he actually believes what he says) by selecting the sources he paid attention to. Anything that didn't fit his predetermined view of how a foreign culture works was ignored.

Glenn Beck is a demagogue with axes to grind and an audience with prejudices to pander to. You aren't. If you want to understand how the world works you need to make that understanding a priority over having your prejudices validated.
To hell with the Middle East and our interventionist / appeasement foreign policy.  Yes intervention and appeasement are opposites, yet it is what we are doing.  That is why we are doomed there as far as exercising our influence.  Our CIC is trying to have it both ways.  He wants to get in on the wrong side in Syria and arm our enemies.  So do some Repubs for that matter. 

The only way out of the Middle East right now is to drill for our own petroleum reserves.  As long as efforts in developing our own resources are fought, we will have to maintain involvement in the Middle East.  I want, yes I want, but only very few evidently, is to bring home our troops and secure our borders.  And the only way to do that is to drill baby drill.  Do you see another way ?  Or are you more interested in continueing our current foreign policy and the administration's environmental policy which forces us to remain at war indefinitely ?  I really don't know how you feel in regards to the questions I just posed, so do not take the questions as baiting.  But they are worthy questions, none the less.

Yes, I see another way: treating the other countries of the world not as providers of what we want from them but as neighbors. If all we see when we look at the middle east is oil guarded by hostile savages then we'll deserve the enemies we'll make there.

We don't need a way out of the middle east, we need a way forward. That will require us seeing the people there much like us, with similar aspirations and needs, and not just the boogeymen you're so afraid of. Even if we could produce enough oil to let us ignore the rest of the world in our lifetimes that world would still be there, in all its real complexity, defying and confounding simplistic visions of it.

It's more work to actually try to understand another culture rather than treat it as if it conformed to our stereotypes, but it's worth it.
Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 28, 29, 30  Next