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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » WTF??!! Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 957, 958, 959  Next
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cc_rider
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:44am

 kurtster wrote:

{#Yes}  There is a bigger thing going on here.

 
The latest fad is the Malcolm Baldridge Award. What a racket. Companies pay to be involved in the program, then their employees are trained to become 'inspectors' of other companies, which are also paying to be in the program. When the employees are 'inspecting', they are not, uh, 'working', so the companies end up paying TWICE. It's a total scam.
But executives eat that $hit up. 'Quality Consultant' is synonymous with 'con artist' in my book.
 
aflanigan
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:42am

 Coaxial wrote:

WTF?

 
Sorry, typo. should have been 22 + 3
aflanigan
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:41am

 kurtster wrote:

{#Yes}  There is a bigger thing going on here.

 
Oh, please. Does everything smack of a conspiracy to you?
Proclivities
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:39am

 kurtster wrote:

It was purported to be a teacher's example sent home, not an actual students work.

Regardless, islander's explanation is pretty good about how it works.  It took me about 5 minutes to figure out what it was trying to accomplish.  I get it, but I'm still trying to figure out why.  It bypasses or complicates the whole base 10 thing though, which is how our common math is universally shared and understood.

 
Like you, I'm still used to that base 10 concept too.  I've gone over my (3rd-grade) son's math homework with him and have been a little bewildered by some of the exercises at first, but the sequences (multiplication and division) made sense after I really looked at them. It makes sense to my son - which is good.  A lot of it seems to be about arriving at the same solution using a few different approaches.  Like Scott mentioned, it's not the sort of stuff I can do in my sleep (or want to be).


Coaxial
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:37am

 aflanigan wrote:
In Peter Beckmann's book a History of Pi, he relates the apocryphal story of Menachmus' answer when his pupil, Alexander the Great, asked for a shortcut to geometry. Menachmus' response:
"in geometry, there is one road for all". Nevertheless, in algebra and mathemetics, there is often more than one road to the right answer.

Under the rules of algebra,

32 - 12 = X  can be rewritten as

-12 = X - 32, or

32 = X + 12

so an alternate way of solving the first equation is to consider what needs to be added to 12 to total 32. Thus, you can solve the problem by iteration (i.e. in steps) until your total equals 32. It might be easier for some than remembering how to 'borrow" a digit from the tens, hundreds, etc. column when you are subtracting a larger number from a smaller one.

35 - 17 = X

35 = X + 17

17 + 5 = 22

17 + 3 = 25

25 + 10 = 35

X = 5 + 3 + 10 = 18

 
WTF?
kurtster
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:33am

 cc_rider wrote:

Okay, I guess that idea makes some sense. But once the numbers get bigger, not to mention decimals, it seems unwieldy. It also seems like it would make learning algebra a nightmare.

I don't know how kids in other countries learn this stuff, but looking at examples like this makes me think some of these new-fangled ideas are just ways 'educational consultants' try to justify their existence. Not unlike the 'Quality' programs that make the rounds from time to time: every one is just a new way for consultants to get money without doing any actual work. 

 
{#Yes}  There is a bigger thing going on here.
aflanigan
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:32am

In Peter Beckmann's book a History of Pi, he relates the apocryphal story of Menachmus' answer when his pupil, Alexander the Great, asked for a shortcut to geometry. Menachmus' response:
"in geometry, there is one road for all". Nevertheless, in algebra and mathemetics, there is often more than one road to the right answer.

Under the rules of algebra,

32 - 12 = X  can be rewritten as

-12 = X - 32, or

32 = X + 12

so an alternate way of solving the first equation is to consider what needs to be added to 12 to total 32. Thus, you can solve the problem by iteration (i.e. in steps) until your total equals 32. It might be easier for some than remembering how to 'borrow" a digit from the tens, hundreds, etc. column when you are subtracting a larger number from a smaller one.

35 - 17 = X

35 = X + 17

17 + 5 = 22

22 + 3 = 25

25 + 10 = 35

X = 5 + 3 + 10 = 18


kurtster
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:32am

 Proclivities wrote:

The hand-writing looks like that of a teen-aged girl, not an adult teacher and certainly not a first-grade student.

 
It was purported to be a teacher's example sent home, not an actual students work.

Regardless, islander's explanation is pretty good about how it works.  It took me about 5 minutes to figure out what it was trying to accomplish.  I get it, but I'm still trying to figure out why.  It bypasses or complicates the whole base 10 thing though, which is how our common math is universally shared and understood.
cc_rider
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:28am

 islander wrote:
See below. They are just trying to make it so the kids are counting in 5s and 10s (the 3 gets them to 15 so they can add 5s & 10s up to 30). If they had just started with 10s it would have been easier. This is just as valid though.
 
Okay, I guess that idea makes some sense. But once the numbers get bigger, not to mention decimals, it seems unwieldy. It also seems like it would make learning algebra a nightmare.

I don't know how kids in other countries learn this stuff, but looking at examples like this makes me think some of these new-fangled ideas are just ways 'educational consultants' try to justify their existence. Not unlike the 'Quality' programs that make the rounds from time to time: every one is just a new way for consultants to get money without doing any actual work. 
Coaxial
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:27am

 islander wrote:

I really think this is a conjured problem to demonstrate how awful new math is. Look at the way they drew the box around the additive components. It really looks like the first and 3rd are subtractions - which makes the whole thing look like nonsense.

 
No way...I'm shocked anyone would stoop so low.{#Snooty}
Proclivities
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:25am

 islander wrote:

I really think this is a conjured problem to demonstrate how awful new math is. Look at the way they drew the box around the additive components. It really looks like the first and 3rd are subtractions - which makes the whole thing look like nonsense.

 
The hand-writing looks like that of a teen-aged (at oldest) girl, not an adult teacher and certainly not a first-grade student.


islander
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:25am

 Red_Dragon wrote:

I'm with you - my fingers work just fine.

 
You have 32 fingers? ewww. 
oldviolin
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:25am

 Red_Dragon wrote:

I'm with you - my fingers work just fine.

 
eh, it's early yet
islander
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:25am

 Antigone wrote:

Ooooooh. Yeah. Make math more complicated.

And I spent many years working retail, counting out change, so I can do that.

 
It's really not that complicated once you figure out what they are doing. I actually like the concept, it's just a lousy example (probably on purpose). 
islander
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:23am

 Proclivities wrote:

Whether or not that is an authentic note, which came from an actual school, does not seem to have been established.

*edit - But Islander's theory makes sense about the logic of hat sequence.

 
I really think this is a conjured problem to demonstrate how awful new math is. Look at the way they drew the box around the additive components. It really looks like the first and 3rd are subtractions - which makes the whole thing look like nonsense.
Red_Dragon
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:22am

 cc_rider wrote:

I still don't understand what they're doing there. The first line: where does the '3' come from? 32? Second line, where does the '5' come from? It sure looks like a lot of extra steps.

 
I'm with you - my fingers work just fine.
Antigone

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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:22am

 islander wrote:

They are taking the low number and counting up to the high number to attain the difference. To make the counting simple they want to go in steps of 5 or 10. So the first step is 3 to get to 15. Then 5 to get to 20, then 10 to get to 30, then the final 2 to reach 32. You then add up each individual step 3+5+10+2 to get 20.

I think this was done intentionally to pick what looks like a very complicated sequence. Had they used a different sequence it would have been easier to follow. If it was 30-17, then the sequence would have been 17+3, 20+10 for a total of 13 and there would be very little uproar. 

 
Ooooooh. Yeah. Make math more complicated.

And I spent many years working retail, counting out change, so I can do that.
black321
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:21am

 islander wrote:

I have a degree in mathematics (1997 - is that old?), and I struggled with that for a couple of minutes.  The way it is presented where the box that they drew makes the first and third steps look like subtraction doesn't help. But once you see it, the concept is pretty simple. And I could see this being a great approach for someone who was having difficulty with the concept of subtraction.  Sometimes it's easier to learn complex processes on simple problems. Then later, you can apply the concept in a place that doesn't have a simple solution.

 
believe that's the point...develop skills that will make it easier to solve more complex math problems...
islander
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:20am

 cc_rider wrote:

I still don't understand what they're doing there. The first line: where does the '3' come from? 32? Second line, where does the '5' come from? It sure looks like a lot of extra steps.

 
See below. They are just trying to make it so the kids are counting in 5s and 10s (the 3 gets them to 15 so they can add 5s & 10s up to 30). If they had just started with 10s it would have been easier. This is just as valid though.


Proclivities
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Posted: Apr 4, 2014 - 9:19am

 cc_rider wrote:

I still don't understand what they're doing there. The first line: where does the '3' come from? 32? Second line, where does the '5' come from? It sure looks like a lot of extra steps.

 
Whether or not that is an authentic note, which came from an actual school, does not seem to have been established.

*edit - But Islander's theory makes sense about the logic of that sequence.


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