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Those Lovable Policemen - ScottFromWyoming - Apr 1, 2015 - 8:19am
 
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ScottFromWyoming
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Location: Powell
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Pisces
Chinese Yr: Tiger


Posted: Apr 1, 2015 - 8:19am

The cop in the road rage incident has been I.D.'d and all I can think is that I'd be in jail if I were that driver. I would have grabbed that ugly green tie and yanked his head into the door frame or at least given him a Three Stooges double-eye poke. I definitely would have gotten out of the car and walked away when the cop left for a minute, ... no way I could have maintained as well as the driver did.
RichardPrins

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Posted: Mar 27, 2015 - 9:39pm

When in Rome...
meower

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Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female
Zodiac: Gemini


Posted: Mar 2, 2015 - 8:12am

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site


The disappeared: Chicago police detain Americans at abuse-laden 'black site'

Alleged police practices at Homan Square, according to those familiar with the facility who spoke out to the Guardian after its investigation into Chicago police abuse, include:

  • Keeping arrestees out of official booking databases.
  • Beating by police, resulting in head wounds.
  • Shackling for prolonged periods.
  • Denying attorneys access to the “secure” facility.
  • Holding people without legal counsel for between 12 and 24 hours, including people as young as 15.

Beaker

Beaker Avatar



Posted: Feb 25, 2015 - 12:44pm

 islander wrote:

???

"Hey Joe, that kid you shot last week, did he die or not?  If he dies in the hospital it's not our fault right?"

 These seem like they should be pretty discrete data, without a lot of wiggle room.  I'd say any police department that needs a data collection division for shootings has a problem. If any officer wasn't aware of the exact count of number of people killed by their immediate peers I'd really wonder why not.


Seriously?  You have questions about data quality when you want summed numbers of incidents across hundreds of police forces?  Really?  You don't think inconsistency in how each tracks their data might be a possible issue?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_quality


 islander wrote:

Jesus, my day crew can tell you how many coffees the night crew had by looking at the number of K cups that are in the box on any given tuesday.  

  
Might want to put a stop to that whole k-cup thing.  It's the socially responsible thing to do.  Thank me later.




islander
Dog is my copilot
islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Scorpio
Chinese Yr: Cock


Posted: Feb 25, 2015 - 12:30pm

 Beaker wrote:

Clearly there is an issue with the quality of the data.  I suspect inconsistent standards of what they are measuring is the culprit.  And as located in the other link, there's, I guess, no federal mandate to have a central collection point (and thus standards) for stats.

As for 80% of forces and 10 person departments...  yeah, perhaps the sheer number of police forces is what's part of the problem too.  

 
???

"Hey Joe, that kid you shot last week, did he die or not?  If he dies in the hospital it's not our fault right?"

 These seem like they should be pretty discrete data, without a lot of wiggle room.  I'd say any police department that needs a data collection division for shootings has a problem. If any officer wasn't aware of the exact count of number of people killed by their immediate peers I'd really wonder why not.

Jesus, my day crew can tell you how many coffees the night crew had by looking at the number of K cups that are in the box on any given tuesday.  


Beaker

Beaker Avatar



Posted: Feb 25, 2015 - 11:53am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Beaker wrote:

To analyze the accuracy of the FBI data, the Journal requested internal records on killings by officers from the nation’s 110 largest police departments. One-hundred-five of them provided figures.

Those internal figures show at least 1,800 police killings in those 105 departments between 2007 and 2012, about 45% more than the FBI’s tally for justifiable homicides in those departments’ jurisdictions, which was 1,242, according to the Journal’s analysis. Nearly all police killings are deemed by the departments or other authorities to be justifiable.

(...)

I think the above statement, as it pertains to the largest police forces, has just been proven untrue.  See the WSJ article.

However, I did find this bit - and it makes perfect sense ... sad truth that it may be:

excerpt from this link:

James O. Pasco, the national executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police, believes that an accurate database would require Congress to pass a law requiring police departments to report their shooting data to a federal agency, presumably the FBI.

“Otherwise it’s an unfunded mandate,” Pasco said. “About 80 percent of police departments have fewer than 10 officers. They don’t have huge data collecting operations. They don’t even have a single person in some of these departments who are dedicated to all the statistical work they have to do now.”

Pasco said he doesn’t know what the union’s position would be on a legal requirement to report shootings and the result of shooting investigations.

“It would depend on what the law looked like,” he said. “Clearly, if it’s just a function of collecting the data, I can’t see that we would have a problem with that. Our issues are with due process for officers.”


In the cases the WSJ was able to obtain internal records for the agencies involved actually knew how many people their officers had killed, but didn't report it to the FBI when asked.

I think the above statement has proven that you didn't read the above statement very carefully.

If a ten person department needs a "huge data collecting operation" to keep track of how many people it kills every year then it's doing the police thing wrong.

 
Clearly there is an issue with the quality of the data.  I suspect inconsistent standards of what they are measuring is the culprit.  And as located in the other link, there's, I guess, no federal mandate to have a central collection point (and thus standards) for stats.

As for 80% of forces and 10 person departments...  yeah, perhaps the sheer number of police forces is what's part of the problem too.  
Lazy8
human
Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 25, 2015 - 11:48am

 Beaker wrote:

To analyze the accuracy of the FBI data, the Journal requested internal records on killings by officers from the nation’s 110 largest police departments. One-hundred-five of them provided figures.

Those internal figures show at least 1,800 police killings in those 105 departments between 2007 and 2012, about 45% more than the FBI’s tally for justifiable homicides in those departments’ jurisdictions, which was 1,242, according to the Journal’s analysis. Nearly all police killings are deemed by the departments or other authorities to be justifiable.

(...)

I think the above statement, as it pertains to the largest police forces, has just been proven untrue.  See the WSJ article.

However, I did find this bit - and it makes perfect sense ... sad truth that it may be:

excerpt from this link:

James O. Pasco, the national executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police, believes that an accurate database would require Congress to pass a law requiring police departments to report their shooting data to a federal agency, presumably the FBI.

“Otherwise it’s an unfunded mandate,” Pasco said. “About 80 percent of police departments have fewer than 10 officers. They don’t have huge data collecting operations. They don’t even have a single person in some of these departments who are dedicated to all the statistical work they have to do now.”

Pasco said he doesn’t know what the union’s position would be on a legal requirement to report shootings and the result of shooting investigations.

“It would depend on what the law looked like,” he said. “Clearly, if it’s just a function of collecting the data, I can’t see that we would have a problem with that. Our issues are with due process for officers.”


In the cases the WSJ was able to obtain internal records for the agencies involved actually knew how many people their officers had killed, but didn't report it to the FBI when asked.

I think the above statement has proven that you didn't read the above statement very carefully.

If a ten person department needs a "huge data collecting operation" to keep track of how many people it kills every year then it's doing the police thing wrong.
Beaker

Beaker Avatar



Posted: Feb 25, 2015 - 11:29am

 islander wrote:

Maybe you should try. In just a few seconds with google I found many indicators that this is indeed true. 

Here's one from the WSJ:
A Wall Street Journal analysis of the latest data from 105 of the country’s largest police agencies found more than 550 police killings during those years were missing from the national tally or, in a few dozen cases, not attributed to the agency involved. The result: It is nearly impossible to determine how many people are killed by the police each year. 

 
Maybe you should try harder and read more of what you located.  With a few minutes of poking about, I found evidence to suggest this is not true - evidence that comes from the very same article you referenced. Of 110 of the largest police departments info was requested from, 105 of them responded with stats from 2007-2012:

 

excerpt from Wall Street Journal, Dec 3, 2014:  

Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

FBI Data Differs from Local Counts on Justifiable Homicides

...

To analyze the accuracy of the FBI data, the Journal requested internal records on killings by officers from the nation’s 110 largest police departments. One-hundred-five of them provided figures.

Those internal figures show at least 1,800 police killings in those 105 departments between 2007 and 2012, about 45% more than the FBI’s tally for justifiable homicides in those departments’ jurisdictions, which was 1,242, according to the Journal’s analysis. Nearly all police killings are deemed by the departments or other authorities to be justifiable.

 


  Lazy8 wrote:

I'm going to repeat the question: what do you want done differently? Police agencies killed 1101 people in the US last year. We don't know how that compares to long-term trends because law enforcement agencies refuse to track the number; we only have reliable records going back to 2013.

 
I think the above statement, as it pertains to the largest police forces, has just been proven untrue.  See the WSJ article.

However, I did find this bit - and it makes perfect sense ... sad truth that it may be:

excerpt from this link:

James O. Pasco, the national executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police, believes that an accurate database would require Congress to pass a law requiring police departments to report their shooting data to a federal agency, presumably the FBI.

“Otherwise it’s an unfunded mandate,” Pasco said. “About 80 percent of police departments have fewer than 10 officers. They don’t have huge data collecting operations. They don’t even have a single person in some of these departments who are dedicated to all the statistical work they have to do now.”

Pasco said he doesn’t know what the union’s position would be on a legal requirement to report shootings and the result of shooting investigations.

“It would depend on what the law looked like,” he said. “Clearly, if it’s just a function of collecting the data, I can’t see that we would have a problem with that. Our issues are with due process for officers.”


EDIT:

From the writer at Gawker's personal commentary (via SFW's link):
The biggest thing I've taken away from this project is something I'll never be able to prove, but I'm convinced to my core: The lack of such a database is intentional. No government—not the federal government, and not the thousands of municipalities that give their police forces license to use deadly force—wants you to know how many people it kills and why.
This kind of conspiracy theory bullshit only fuels distrust of our police forces.  This is not journalism, but idle dumb-ass speculation.  So much for whatever effort that ass-clown put into his research.  If his approach to police forces seeking info was as clumsy and unprofessional as his scribbling, small wonder he was refused access to data.  You think public agencies have armies of paid staff awaiting just any old jackass to show up and ask questions?  No.  I'll go with traditional journalists, or even credible bloggers every time, thanks very much.  Latest case in point of moron jackass writer discrediting their supposedly credible outlet is here.


ScottFromWyoming
Psycho. Poodle
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Location: Powell
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Pisces
Chinese Yr: Tiger


Posted: Feb 25, 2015 - 11:06am

 islander wrote:

Maybe you should try. In just a few seconds with google I found many indicators that this is indeed true. 

Here's one from the WSJ:
A Wall Street Journal analysis of the latest data from 105 of the country’s largest police agencies found more than 550 police killings during those years were missing from the national tally or, in a few dozen cases, not attributed to the agency involved. The result: It is nearly impossible to determine how many people are killed by the police each year. 

 
More.
More.
More. This last one is from the creator of fatalencounters.org, I've contributed a couple of times to that site.
islander
Dog is my copilot
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Location: Seattle
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Scorpio
Chinese Yr: Cock


Posted: Feb 25, 2015 - 10:57am

 Beaker wrote:

I don't buy that at all.  Not in this day and age. LEA tracks crime stats of many types, including 'officer-involved' shootings.  I don't need to find this online.  Common sense and recall of media pressers tells me this to be true.

FOIA request?  I'm sure its been done. 

 
Maybe you should try. In just a few seconds with google I found many indicators that this is indeed true. 

Here's one from the WSJ:
A Wall Street Journal analysis of the latest data from 105 of the country’s largest police agencies found more than 550 police killings during those years were missing from the national tally or, in a few dozen cases, not attributed to the agency involved. The result: It is nearly impossible to determine how many people are killed by the police each year. 
Beaker

Beaker Avatar



Posted: Feb 25, 2015 - 10:18am

 Lazy8 wrote:
Beaker wrote:
So due to the actions of a tiny minority of law enforcement types, and the amplification of same by our hyperventialting media and community activists, it's now perfectly okay to just walk up and shoot any cop that ventures into the neighbourhood to take a burglary or accident report?  Just checking...

Consider the likely - and justified responses and changes to procedure by police forces everywhere if this new reality becomes more commonplace. Some people decry the supposed militarization of police.  They ain't seen nothing yet ...

In the little valley I live in there are 5 police agencies not counting the state highway patrol. Of those four have reasonably good reputations and enjoy broad community support.

The other (in the nearest town) has a reputation for bullying and incompetence. Their investigations were so shoddy the county prosecutor refused to take take any case referrals from them, and told them to have the Sheriffs' Department bring charges against anyone they wanted to charge with a crime.

Heads rolled. The department was reorganized, but the damage was done. I'd like to believe it's all been fixed but the only way to know is to live here and interact with the police—something most of us are reluctant to do. Reputations are like that; they take years to build and minutes to destroy.

Who would you blame for this situation? The bad cops who earned the bad reputation or the media that exposed it? What would you suggest we do differently? The last time an officer from one of our county agencies died in the line of duty was 1919. All that negative media attention hasn't seemed to get anyone hurt yet.

In some cases the problem is just a few bad cops. They should be rooted out and/or prosecuted. If that doesn't happen then it's not just a few bad cops, is it?

In some cases it's widespread abusive practices, like civil asset forfeiture. Even righteous agencies can fall for that. Should we just shut up and hand over the keys?

In some cases it's police departments acquiring white-elephant equipment that has no legitimate police use, like a tank or an MRAP. You can look at it as just a waste of the taxpayers' money or see it as something more sinister; I suspect the choice between the two has a lot to do with what else is wrong with the department.

 
Yes, like any bureaucracy funded by public monies, there's no lack of finding waste, dubious expenditures and mismanagement - not all of which is a given force's fault.  Anyone who has sold to government can attest to the disincentive many agencies & depts have if they fail to spend their allocated budget.  There are no rewards for thrifty use of funds and being consistently under budget.  On the contrary - there often are consequences for being too thrifty.

 Lazy8 wrote:

I'm going to repeat the question: what do you want done differently? Police agencies killed 1101 people in the US last year. We don't know how that compares to long-term trends because law enforcement agencies refuse to track the number; we only have reliable records going back to 2013.

They keep meticulous records of officers killed in the line of duty, however. In 2013 (the last year I could find) there were 102 officers killed in the US, the lowest number since 1910, part of a long-term trend of decreasing police fatalities that began about 15 years ago.

Your outrage is duly noted, but it's based on op-ed puffery, not the reality those of us living here actually face.

 
I don't buy that at all.  Not in this day and age. LEA tracks crime stats of many types, including 'officer-involved' shootings.  I don't need to find this online.  Common sense and recall of media pressers tells me this to be true.

FOIA request?  I'm sure its been done. 
FourFortyEight

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Location: The Dirty South
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Sagittarius
Chinese Yr: Dog


Posted: Feb 24, 2015 - 8:41pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Beaker wrote:
So due to the actions of a tiny minority of law enforcement types, and the amplification of same by our hyperventialting media and community activists, it's now perfectly okay to just walk up and shoot any cop that ventures into the neighbourhood to take a burglary or accident report?  Just checking...

Consider the likely - and justified responses and changes to procedure by police forces everywhere if this new reality becomes more commonplace. Some people decry the supposed militarization of police.  They ain't seen nothing yet ...

In the little valley I live in there are 5 police agencies not counting the state highway patrol. Of those four have reasonably good reputations and enjoy broad community support.

The other (in the nearest town) has a reputation for bullying and incompetence. Their investigations were so shoddy the county prosecutor refused to take take any case referrals from them, and told them to have the Sheriffs' Department bring charges against anyone they wanted to charge with a crime.

Heads rolled. The department was reorganized, but the damage was done. I'd like to believe it's all been fixed but the only way to know is to live here and interact with the police—something most of us are reluctant to do. Reputations are like that; they take years to build and minutes to destroy.

Who would you blame for this situation? The bad cops who earned the bad reputation or the media that exposed it? What would you suggest we do differently? The last time an officer from one of our county agencies died in the line of duty was 1919. All that negative media attention hasn't seemed to get anyone hurt yet.

In some cases the problem is just a few bad cops. They should be rooted out and/or prosecuted. If that doesn't happen then it's not just a few bad cops, is it?

In some cases it's widespread abusive practices, like civil asset forfeiture. Even righteous agencies can fall for that. Should we just shut up and hand over the keys?

In some cases it's police departments acquiring white-elephant equipment that has no legitimate police use, like a tank or an MRAP. You can look at it as just a waste of the taxpayers' money or see it as something more sinister; I suspect the choice between the two has a lot to do with what else is wrong with the department.

I'm going to repeat the question: what do you want done differently? Police agencies killed 1101 people in the US last year. We don't know how that compares to long-term trends because law enforcement agencies refuse to track the number; we only have reliable records going back to 2013.

They keep meticulous records of officers killed in the line of duty, however. In 2013 (the last year I could find) there were 102 officers killed in the US, the lowest number since 1910, part of a long-term trend of decreasing police fatalities that began about 15 years ago.

Your outrage is duly noted, but it's based on op-ed puffery, not the reality those of us living here actually face.

 
Spot on.
RichardPrins

RichardPrins Avatar



Posted: Feb 24, 2015 - 1:20pm

The disappeared: Chicago police detain Americans at abuse-laden 'black site'
Secret interrogation facility reveals aspects of war on terror in US
‘They disappeared us’: protester details 17-hour shackling without basic rights
Accounts describe police brutality, missing 15-year-old and one man’s death


Lazy8
human
Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 24, 2015 - 10:03am

Beaker wrote:
So due to the actions of a tiny minority of law enforcement types, and the amplification of same by our hyperventialting media and community activists, it's now perfectly okay to just walk up and shoot any cop that ventures into the neighbourhood to take a burglary or accident report?  Just checking...

Consider the likely - and justified responses and changes to procedure by police forces everywhere if this new reality becomes more commonplace. Some people decry the supposed militarization of police.  They ain't seen nothing yet ...

In the little valley I live in there are 5 police agencies not counting the state highway patrol. Of those four have reasonably good reputations and enjoy broad community support.

The other (in the nearest town) has a reputation for bullying and incompetence. Their investigations were so shoddy the county prosecutor refused to take take any case referrals from them, and told them to have the Sheriffs' Department bring charges against anyone they wanted to charge with a crime.

Heads rolled. The department was reorganized, but the damage was done. I'd like to believe it's all been fixed but the only way to know is to live here and interact with the police—something most of us are reluctant to do. Reputations are like that; they take years to build and minutes to destroy.

Who would you blame for this situation? The bad cops who earned the bad reputation or the media that exposed it? What would you suggest we do differently? The last time an officer from one of our county agencies died in the line of duty was 1919. All that negative media attention hasn't seemed to get anyone hurt yet.

In some cases the problem is just a few bad cops. They should be rooted out and/or prosecuted. If that doesn't happen then it's not just a few bad cops, is it?

In some cases it's widespread abusive practices, like civil asset forfeiture. Even righteous agencies can fall for that. Should we just shut up and hand over the keys?

In some cases it's police departments acquiring white-elephant equipment that has no legitimate police use, like a tank or an MRAP. You can look at it as just a waste of the taxpayers' money or see it as something more sinister; I suspect the choice between the two has a lot to do with what else is wrong with the department.

I'm going to repeat the question: what do you want done differently? Police agencies killed 1101 people in the US last year. We don't know how that compares to long-term trends because law enforcement agencies refuse to track the number; we only have reliable records going back to 2013.

They keep meticulous records of officers killed in the line of duty, however. In 2013 (the last year I could find) there were 102 officers killed in the US, the lowest number since 1910, part of a long-term trend of decreasing police fatalities that began about 15 years ago.

Your outrage is duly noted, but it's based on op-ed puffery, not the reality those of us living here actually face.
islander
Dog is my copilot
islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Scorpio
Chinese Yr: Cock


Posted: Feb 24, 2015 - 9:36am

 Beaker wrote:

So due to the actions of a tiny minority of law enforcement types, and the amplification of same by our hyperventialting media and community activists, it's now perfectly okay to just walk up and shoot any cop that ventures into the neighbourhood to take a burglary or accident report?  Just checking...

Consider the likely - and justified responses and changes to procedure by police forces everywhere if this new reality becomes more commonplace. Some people decry the supposed militarization of police.  They ain't seen nothing yet ...

 
I would also classify any actions of aggression toward police as representative of a 'tiny minority' (certainly a smaller percentage than those of aggressive police).  

As Lazy8 mentions, the trust needs to be consistently earned. The cases where the trust is broken are the exceptions that need work from both sides. But the larger step needs to come from the side with that had the most leeway given originally.  That would be the ones who carry guns and are authorized to use force.  Their insistence on militarization in response to a 'tiny minority' problem is what is causing the lack of respect they are struggling with now.
Edit:  I've also never seen anyone who was aggressive toward the police hailed as a hero in any way/shape/form, certainly not in any news media. 
Beaker

Beaker Avatar



Posted: Feb 24, 2015 - 8:35am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Beaker wrote:
That's right people ... keep on perpetuating the negative.  And look at what rewards that brings:

 Police today are working in a new reality

Minneapolis police officer Jordan Davis was responding to a burglary in a high crime area of the city when he was shot after taking the victim's statement. Police Chief Janee Harteau says the incident was not random:

 

When people brazenly march down the avenues of cities calling for the death of law enforcement officers and police are slaughtered in ambush scenarios, making temporary “heroes” of their killers in the media, the world becomes a more dangerous place.

Sadly, this is not some hyperbolic warning about a possible future. The bell has already been rung and police are being hunted for sport. And we can’t reverse this tide by chasing individual criminals or hearing pontifications from politicians. If we want to restore and maintain order there needs to be a renewal of community support for the police, not just as individuals, but for what they represent.


Even if we were inclined to just trust them there are far too many communities in this country where they have squandered that trust and earned active distrust. They will have to earn it back.

 
So due to the actions of a tiny minority of law enforcement types, and the amplification of same by our hyperventialting media and community activists, it's now perfectly okay to just walk up and shoot any cop that ventures into the neighbourhood to take a burglary or accident report?  Just checking...

Consider the likely - and justified responses and changes to procedure by police forces everywhere if this new reality becomes more commonplace. Some people decry the supposed militarization of police.  They ain't seen nothing yet ...


Lazy8
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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 24, 2015 - 8:31am

 Beaker wrote:
That's right people ... keep on perpetuating the negative.  And look at what rewards that brings:

 Police today are working in a new reality

Minneapolis police officer Jordan Davis was responding to a burglary in a high crime area of the city when he was shot after taking the victim's statement. Police Chief Janee Harteau says the incident was not random:

 

When people brazenly march down the avenues of cities calling for the death of law enforcement officers and police are slaughtered in ambush scenarios, making temporary “heroes” of their killers in the media, the world becomes a more dangerous place.

Sadly, this is not some hyperbolic warning about a possible future. The bell has already been rung and police are being hunted for sport. And we can’t reverse this tide by chasing individual criminals or hearing pontifications from politicians. If we want to restore and maintain order there needs to be a renewal of community support for the police, not just as individuals, but for what they represent.


Even if we were inclined to just trust them there are far too many communities in this country where they have squandered that trust and earned active distrust. They will have to earn it back.
Beaker

Beaker Avatar



Posted: Feb 24, 2015 - 7:59am

That's right people ... keep on perpetuating the negative.  And look at what rewards that brings:

 Police today are working in a new reality

Minneapolis police officer Jordan Davis was responding to a burglary in a high crime area of the city when he was shot after taking the victim's statement. Police Chief Janee Harteau says the incident was not random:

 

When people brazenly march down the avenues of cities calling for the death of law enforcement officers and police are slaughtered in ambush scenarios, making temporary “heroes” of their killers in the media, the world becomes a more dangerous place.

Sadly, this is not some hyperbolic warning about a possible future. The bell has already been rung and police are being hunted for sport. And we can’t reverse this tide by chasing individual criminals or hearing pontifications from politicians. If we want to restore and maintain order there needs to be a renewal of community support for the police, not just as individuals, but for what they represent.




RichardPrins

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Posted: Feb 18, 2015 - 9:52am

...chicken or egg?
Bad lieutenant: American police brutality, exported from Chicago to Guantánamo

Guantánamo torturer led brutal Chicago police regime of shackling and confession
A Chicago detective who led one of the most shocking acts of torture ever conducted at Guantánamo Bay was responsible for implementing a disturbingly similar, years-long regime of brutality to elicit murder confessions from minority Americans.

In a dark foreshadowing of the United States’ post-9/11 descent into torture, a Guardian investigation can reveal that Richard Zuley, a detective on Chicago’s north side from 1977 to 2007, repeatedly engaged in methods of interrogation resulting in at least one wrongful conviction and subsequent cases more recently thrown into doubt following allegations of abuse.

Zuley’s record suggests a continuum between police abuses in urban America and the wartime detention scandals that continue to do persistent damage to the reputation of the United States. Zuley’s tactics, which would be supercharged at Guantánamo when he took over the interrogation of a high-profile detainee as a US Navy reserve lieutenant, included: (...)


Coaxial
SHINE ON
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Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles east of Paradise
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Capricorn
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Feb 13, 2015 - 10:34pm

 RichardPrins wrote:
 

Indeed, there's no possible excuse for such brutal behaviour. It should be obvious within a minute or so of the interaction that he's Indian/foreign and may not understand. To instead go full-blown authoritarian storm trooper on the old guy because he's not following an order is just effin' nuts.

PS: I also don't understand why people, in what looks like a reasonably affluent suburb, need to call the cops when it's just "an old skinny looking guy" taking a stroll on the side walk. Paranoid much?

 
Yeah...But he was black.
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