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DaveInVA
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Posted: Aug 31, 2014 - 5:53pm

Dozens of police agencies report loss of Pentagon-supplied military weapons


islander
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Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 10:38am

 sirdroseph wrote:


I have seen and posted many other incidents that would suggests otherwise.  Of course race is a factor, I just don't want the whole systematic corruption of our police force to funneled down to only a race issue, of course race is an issue, has always been, but now it is much bigger than that.  I submit that if a white person had robbed that bank and the perp had reasonable descriptive similarities as you and I and we were in the area this very well could happen to us as well. 

 
Sorry, but bullshit.

This is really speculative, but I'm very confident in saying that In Beverly Hills, or any area with a majority white population, we might have been detained if we were wearing substantially similar clothing to a description, but not simply for being white (and maybe tall). I doubt we would have been handcuffed, or made to sit on a curb for 45 minutes. We certainly wouldn't have spent 6+ hours dealing with the incident with limited representation. And if any of that presented itself as a possibility we would have felt just fine speaking up asking for representation with minimal fear of retaliation.

I get what you are saying. The police certainly have a number of incidents where it can be shown they acted beyond their positions. This is even one of those cases. But the only reason they did it here is because of race. To try and make this a broader indictment or to claim "if a white person had robbed that bank and the perp had reasonable descriptive similarities as you and I and we were in the area this very well could happen to us as well" is dishonest and reduces the impact of the argument you are trying to make. 

Not every molehill is your mountain. 
sirdroseph
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Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 10:13am

 islander wrote:

Uh, not very often. And it was certainly his race that caused this and not any other proximate cause. The only component of the description of the bank robber that he fit was black (and maybe tall).  How many tall white guys were detained the last time (or the last 20 times) a white guy robbed a bank/store?

This simply doesn't happen to you and me. Even if in the region of a crime, I'm extremely unlikely to even be detained. If detained, I'll be treated better, which would result in a much better outcome.  They didn't even tell him why they were detaining him (and he probably very smartly didn't insist on an explanation of the charges). You or I would probably have a chance to plead our case and get our friends sitting nearby to vouch for us.  

Your adding the "notwithstanding" makes it look like you think this is a minor contributing factor, when it is in fact the main overriding factor, without which this wouldn't be a story. 

 

I have seen and posted many other incidents that would suggests otherwise.  Of course race is a factor, I just don't want the whole systematic corruption of our police force to funneled down to only a race issue, of course race is an issue, has always been, but now it is much bigger than that.  I submit that if a white person had robbed that bank and the perp had reasonable descriptive similarities as you and I and we were in the area this very well could happen to us as well. 


islander
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Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 10:01am

 sirdroseph wrote:


I was speaking to the whole way they handle the process; they have treated white people this way as well.  BTW notwithstanding implies that I do understand the racial aspect to this, just an FYI.

 
Uh, not very often. And it was certainly his race that caused this and not any other proximate cause. The only component of the description of the bank robber that he fit was black (and maybe tall).  How many tall white guys were detained the last time (or the last 20 times) a white guy robbed a bank/store?

This simply doesn't happen to you and me. Even if in the region of a crime, I'm extremely unlikely to even be detained. If detained, I'll be treated better, which would result in a much better outcome.  They didn't even tell him why they were detaining him (and he probably very smartly didn't insist on an explanation of the charges). You or I would probably have a chance to plead our case and get our friends sitting nearby to vouch for us.  

Your adding the "notwithstanding" makes it look like you think this is a minor contributing factor, when it is in fact the main overriding factor, without which this wouldn't be a story. 
sirdroseph
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Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 9:42am

 islander wrote:

Uh, what do you mean "notwithstanding the racial aspect"?  This would not have happened if he were white. There is only a racial aspect to this.

 

I was speaking to the whole way they handle the process; they have treated white people this way as well.  BTW notwithstanding implies that I do understand the racial aspect to this, just an FYI.
islander
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Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 9:37am

 sirdroseph wrote:
Black TV producer on way to Emmys party mistaken for bank robber, handcuffed, held for six hours
Notwithstanding the racial aspect of all of this even if he was white......WTF???    

 
Uh, what do you mean "notwithstanding the racial aspect"?  This would not have happened if he were white. There is only a racial aspect to this.
bokey
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Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 9:19am


sirdroseph
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Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 8:53am

Black TV producer on way to Emmys party mistaken for bank robber, handcuffed, held for six hours


Notwithstanding the racial aspect of all of this even if he was white......WTF???    
sirdroseph
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Posted: Aug 27, 2014 - 6:17am


DaveInVA
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Posted: Aug 22, 2014 - 3:52pm

Oklahoma officer accused in 6 sexual assaults during traffic stops


RichardPrins
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Posted: Aug 22, 2014 - 2:16pm

 kurtster wrote:
Hmmm, you may be right.  So I went to look it up.  I figured that it was about time I found out what I am so guilty of.

(...) This nuance stuff is just too messy.  Time to move on.
 
I told you so... {#Mrgreen}
kurtster
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Posted: Aug 22, 2014 - 1:59pm

 RichardPrins wrote:

First you need to learn to recognize hyperbole, which, judging from your posts, you don't. {#Mrgreen}

Judge Dredd isn't so much hyperbole as an apt (fictional) analogy to a cop that judges and then executes a perp (as opposed to maybe shooting him in the legs, followed by arresting him so he could be arraigned and indicted based on evidence)...

Likely too nuanced for you, O'Kurtster?

 
Hmmm, you may be right.  So I went to look it up.  I figured that it was about time I found out what I am so guilty of.

hy·per·bo·le

 noun hÄ«-ˈpər-bə-(ˌ)lē

: language that describes something as better or worse than it really is


I guess calling someone Judge Dredd with very little knowledge of real facts could be a type of hyperbole.  What is the other possibilty, oh yeah, an analogy.  You say vase, I say vase.  Damn, I just hate these nuance things.

Oh yeah, the analogy.  Your use represents open prejudice on your part.  

This nuance stuff is just too messy.  Time to move on.

Ta'


RichardPrins
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Posted: Aug 22, 2014 - 1:34pm

 kurtster wrote:
Just taking the opportunity to point out your usage of hyperbole as you always call me out on it.

tsk tsk   the hypocrisy ...
 
First you need to learn to recognize hyperbole, which, judging from your posts, you don't. {#Mrgreen}

Judge Dredd isn't so much hyperbole as an apt (fictional) analogy to a cop that judges and then executes a perp (as opposed to maybe shooting him in the legs, followed by arresting him so he could be arraigned and indicted based on evidence)...

Likely too nuanced for you, O'Kurtster?
kurtster
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Posted: Aug 22, 2014 - 12:38pm

 RichardPrins wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
(...) Several reports say that the officer who shot Brown had a shattered eye orbit / socket as a result from Brown punching the officer. (...)

Still seems Judge Dredd reacted rather excessively (see proportionality again) by causing six gunshot wounds, even when such a stupid assault took place on a cop and the perp tried to get away...

 
Just taking the opportunity to point out your usage of hyperbole as you always call me out on it.

tsk tsk   the hypocrisy ... 
sirdroseph
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Posted: Aug 22, 2014 - 5:25am


sirdroseph
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Posted: Aug 22, 2014 - 4:52am

Police lobbies pressure Congress to keep their military equipment
sirdroseph
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Posted: Aug 21, 2014 - 12:21pm

I reckon there are still some Congressmen who apparently are not paying attention to Ferguson.... or are they? 

H.R. 5344, The Responsible Body Armor Possession Act


RichardPrins
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Posted: Aug 20, 2014 - 11:30am

 kurtster wrote:
Judge a fractured skull resulting from being punched and get back to me.
 
So I guess that (which I called a stupid assault earlier) is reason enough to execute (judge, jury, and executioner) someone? Mmmm, okay.
kurtster
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Posted: Aug 20, 2014 - 11:25am

 RichardPrins wrote:

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged." Maybe something for some cops to learn. {#Mrgreen}

There is also a history of indictments not happening quite as often (when it comes to certain professions).

 
Judge a fractured skull resulting from being punched and get back to me.
RichardPrins
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Posted: Aug 20, 2014 - 8:13am

 sirdroseph wrote:
There will be ample investigations and we should withhold Judge Dredd type reactions before indicting the officer in this case. (...)
 
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged." Maybe something for some cops to learn. {#Mrgreen}

There is also a history of indictments not happening quite as often (when it comes to certain professions).
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