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ScottFromWyoming
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 12:20pm

 black321 wrote:

Oh, you're one of those parents.  Ha

 

black321
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 12:17pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

That's easy. Try giving credit to both sides. 

 
Oh, you're one of those parents.  Ha
ScottFromWyoming
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 11:56am

 black321 wrote:

Don't give an inch, so not to let the other side win, right?  That's the strategy of our two party system, which none of us have faith in anymore, yet we all seem inclined to adapt it for our own positions.
I'm ok with an attempt at being reasonable, rational, throwing blame on both sides where it belongs. 

 
That's easy. Try giving credit to both sides. 
miamizsun

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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 11:30am

 black321 wrote:
Nice, reasonable discussion with what is wrong with both sides of US politics 

well not just politics (philosophy overall)
black321
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 10:35am

 Steely_D wrote:

A few facts added into your argument will tell you it doesn't make sense:

CNN started in 1980 and Reagan was President then. See my point below, was that during the Reagan years even opponents could - without losing their principles - come to some sort of compromise for the good of moving the nation forward.

FOX News began in 1996, During Clinton's period. And did things improve from there? No, so it's completely fair to talk about the variable in the equation that changed: FOX and Murdoch and some fundamentalism enter the picture.

You didn't mention religion as a thing to blame, although it's part of this inability to negotiate. If God is your mentor, there is no compromise.

 
I think you're missing the point and i tend to disagree re the comment on religion, though religion has often been perverted to be used as you say it has. 


Steely_D
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 10:29am

 black321 wrote:

If you are going to blame fox, then blame cnn too for creating the 24 hour news entertainment platform.  And the internet, smart phones...for allowing people to choose their own source of entertainment news, 24/7.  Or our primal minds for creating an us v. them, my tribe v. yours, yankees v. red sox...
 
A few facts added into your argument will tell you it doesn't make sense:

CNN started in 1980 and Reagan was President then. See my point below, was that during the Reagan years even opponents could - without losing their principles - come to some sort of compromise for the good of moving the nation forward.

FOX News began in 1996, During Clinton's period. And did things improve from there? No, so it's completely fair to talk about the variable in the equation that changed: FOX and Murdoch and some fundamentalism enter the picture.

You didn't mention religion as a thing to blame, although it's part of this inability to negotiate. If God is your mentor, there is no compromise.
black321
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 10:15am

 Steely_D wrote:

But that "no compromise" thing is more recent, and probably a manifestation of how FOX became a mouthpiece for its political perspective. (Yes, MSNBC etc are also biased, but the blame is squarely on FOX and Murdoch). 

Remember Reagan and Tip O'Neill  getting together and working things out. Those were attempts at a reasonable figuring out how to get things accomplished that are good for the country. Now, something like that would be reframed - in the media - as traitorous. Because that's dramatic and would get people to watch their TV show.
FTA:
No, my father and Reagan weren’t close friends. Famously, after 6 p.m. on quite a few work days, they would sit down for drinks at the White House. But it wasn’t the drinks or the conversation that allowed American government to work. Instead, it was a stubborn refusal not to allow fund-raisers, activists, party platforms or ideological chasms to stand between them and actions — tempered and improved by compromise — that kept this country moving.


 
If you are going to blame fox, then blame cnn too for creating the 24 hour news entertainment platform.  And the internet, smart phones...for allowing people to choose their own source of entertainment news, 24/7.  Or our primal minds for creating an us v. them, my tribe v. yours, yankees v. red sox...

So is it really a psychological problem, our politics?  People want to choose a side and have that side win.  What we have now is in some ways just a logical extension of that mentality.  In the past, we didnt have the resources to stay informed, gather as much data, root on our team as strongly as we do now. We were less invested?  Now we do.  Knowledge is a terrible thing to waste. 
Steely_D
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 10:05am

 black321 wrote:

Don't give an inch, so not to let the other side win, right?  That's the strategy of our two party system, which none of us have faith in anymore, yet we all seem inclined to adapt it for our own positions.
I'm ok with an attempt at being reasonable, rational, throwing blame on both sides where it belongs. 

 
But that "no compromise" thing is more recent, and probably a manifestation of how FOX became a mouthpiece for its political perspective. (Yes, MSNBC etc are also biased, but the blame is squarely on FOX and Murdoch). 

Remember Reagan and Tip O'Neill  getting together and working things out. Those were attempts at a reasonable figuring out how to get things accomplished that are good for the country. Now, something like that would be reframed - in the media - as traitorous. Because that's dramatic and would get people to watch their TV show.
FTA:
No, my father and Reagan weren’t close friends. Famously, after 6 p.m. on quite a few work days, they would sit down for drinks at the White House. But it wasn’t the drinks or the conversation that allowed American government to work. Instead, it was a stubborn refusal not to allow fund-raisers, activists, party platforms or ideological chasms to stand between them and actions — tempered and improved by compromise — that kept this country moving.

black321
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 9:26am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

I don't even need to watch it. The problem is litmus tests and black-white (or is it blue-red)(that's a litmus thing; interesting that it's also a Dem/GOP thing) thinking. I can easily find something in the Trump dumpster fire that I think is worth saving. If I do, though, and say it out loud, the "other" side will say that if I agree with A, then they will go ahead and implement B thru XX in my name because clearly I agree with everything they do. If I say it here, "my" side will read me a laundry list of horrible other things Trump has done. Everyone is absolutely against giving an inch because the other side will make the exact same leap and take that one positive thing and declare that that is equal to agreeing with the whole list.

 
Don't give an inch, so not to let the other side win, right?  That's the strategy of our two party system, which none of us have faith in anymore, yet we all seem inclined to adapt it for our own positions.
I'm ok with an attempt at being reasonable, rational, throwing blame on both sides where it belongs. 
ScottFromWyoming
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Location: Powell
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 9:14am

 black321 wrote:
Nice, reasonable discussion with what is wrong with both sides of US politics

 
I don't even need to watch it. The problem is litmus tests and black-white (or is it blue-red)(that's a litmus thing; interesting that it's also a Dem/GOP thing) thinking. I can easily find something in the Trump dumpster fire that I think is worth saving. If I do, though, and say it out loud, the "other" side will say that if I agree with A, then they will go ahead and implement B thru XX in my name because clearly I agree with everything they do. If I say it here, "my" side will read me a laundry list of horrible other things Trump has done. Everyone is absolutely against giving an inch because the other side will make the exact same leap and take that one positive thing and declare that that is equal to agreeing with the whole list.
black321
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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 8:58am

Nice, reasonable discussion with what is wrong with both sides of US politics
 

miamizsun wrote:


 

miamizsun

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Posted: Jan 22, 2018 - 4:18am


miamizsun

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Posted: Jan 3, 2018 - 2:53pm



one of pinker's comments  {#Arrowd}



miamizsun

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Posted: Dec 9, 2017 - 6:13am


sirdroseph
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Posted: Jun 30, 2017 - 4:33am

 bugleboy624 wrote:
Since Election Day is tomorrow, I thought it would be good to give this thread a bump for all who intend to vote. Consider the third-party option because it's the only way we'll get any true change to occur.

 



Well done, you got woke at least 2 years before me!
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Posted: Jun 30, 2017 - 4:25am


justin_thyme
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Posted: Nov 3, 2008 - 1:01pm

 bugleboy624 wrote:
Since Election Day is tomorrow, I thought it would be good to give this thread a bump for all who intend to vote. Consider the third-party option because it's the only way we'll get any true change to occur.

 
IMO, casting a ballot for a third-party candidate in a national or statewide election is equivalent to throwing away your vote.  I believe that if you disagree with the agendas/policies of both the democratic and the republican candidate, vote for the one you dislike the least.  Remember what happened in 2000 (Nader supporters placed GWB in office) and in 1992 (votes for Perot took away enough votes from Bush 41 to allow Clinton's victory).

(Not that I'm not glad Clinton won that one . . . . {#Clap})

bugleboy624
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Posted: Nov 3, 2008 - 12:40pm

Since Election Day is tomorrow, I thought it would be good to give this thread a bump for all who intend to vote. Consider the third-party option because it's the only way we'll get any true change to occur.
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