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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » OBAMACARE Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 56, 57, 58  Next
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sirdroseph
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Posted: Oct 23, 2014 - 3:59am

 MrsHobieJoe wrote:

I thought we knew this already, at least I'm sure it's been mentioned here before. I still prefer our system but to each his own.

 

I do too, that is exactly my point.
MrsHobieJoe
Make tea, not war.
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Location: somewhere in Europe
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Posted: Oct 22, 2014 - 11:09pm

 sirdroseph wrote:

Another part of article I posted on another thread, but this succinctly articulates what I have been saying about ACA.  This highlights the extreme hypocrisy of both the so called conservatives who oppose the ACA and the so called liberals who support it:

Health Reform

Contrary to rants that Obama’s 2010 health reform, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA), is the most socialistic legislation in American history, the reality is that it is virtually textbook Republican health policy, with a pedigree from the Heritage Foundation and Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, among others.

It’s important to remember that historically the left-Democratic approach to healthcare reform was always based on a fully government-run system such as Medicare or Medicaid. During debate on health reform in 2009, this approach was called “single payer,” with the government being the single payer. One benefit of this approach is cost control: the government could use its monopsony buying power to force down prices just as Walmart does with its suppliers.

Conservatives wanted to avoid too much government control and were adamantly opposed to single-payer. But they recognized that certain problems required more than a pure free-market solution. One problem in particular is covering people with pre-existing conditions, one of the most popular provisions in ACA. The difficulty is that people may wait until they get sick before buying insurance and then expect full coverage for their conditions. Obviously, this free-rider problem would bankrupt the health-insurance system unless there was a fix.

The conservative solution was the individual mandate—forcing people to buy private health insurance, with subsidies for the poor. This approach was first put forward by Heritage Foundation economist Stuart Butler in a 1989 paper, “A Framework for Reform,” published in a Heritage Foundation book, A National Health System for America. In it, Butler said the number one element of a conservative health system was this: “Every resident of the U.S. must, by law, be enrolled in an adequate health care plan to cover major health costs.” He went on to say:

Under this arrangement, all households would be required to protect themselves from major medical costs by purchasing health insurance or enrolling in a prepaid health plan. The degree of financial protection can be debated, but the principle of mandatory family protection is central to a universal health care system in America.

In 1991, prominent conservative health economist Mark V. Pauley also endorsed the individual mandate as central to healthcare reform. In an article in the journal Health Affairs, Pauley said:

All citizens should be required to obtain a basic level of health insurance. Not having health insurance imposes a risk of delaying medical care; it also may impose costs on others, because we as a society provide care to the uninsured. … Permitting individuals to remain uninsured results in inefficient use of medical care, inequity in the incidence of costs of uncompensated care, and tax-related distortions.

In 2004, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) endorsed an individual mandate in a speech to the National Press Club. “I believe higher-income Americans today do have a societal and personal responsibility to cover in some way themselves and their children,” he said. Even libertarian Ron Bailey, writing in Reason, conceded the necessity of a mandate in a November 2004 article titled, “Mandatory Health Insurance Now!” Said Bailey: “Why shouldn’t we require people who now get health care at the expense of the rest of us pay for their coverage themselves? … Mandatory health insurance would not be unlike the laws that require drivers to purchase auto insurance or pay into state-run risk pools.”

Among those enamored with the emerging conservative health reform based on an individual mandate was Mitt Romney, who was elected governor of Massachusetts in 2002. In 2004, he put forward a state health reform plan to which he later added an individual mandate. As Romney explained in June 2005, “No more ‘free riding,’ if you will, where an individual says: ‘I’m not going to pay, even though I can afford it. I’m not going to get insurance, even though I can afford it. I’m instead going to just show up and make the taxpayers pay for me’.”

The following month, Romney emphasized his point: “We can’t have as a nation 40 million people—or, in my state, half a million—saying, ‘I don’t have insurance, and if I get sick, I want someone else to pay’.”

In 2006, Governor Romney signed the Massachusetts health reform into law, including the individual mandate. Defending his legislation in a Wall Street Journal article, he said:

I proposed that everyone must either purchase a product of their choice or demonstrate that they can pay for their own health care. It’s a personal responsibility principle.

Some of my libertarian friends balk at what looks like an individual mandate. But remember, someone has to pay for the health care that must, by law, be provided: Either the individual pays or the taxpayers pay. A free ride on government is not libertarian.

As late as 2008, Robert Moffitt of the Heritage Foundation was still defending the individual mandate as reasonable, non-ideological and nonpartisan in an article for the Harvard Health Policy Review.

So what changed just a year later, when Obama put forward a health-reform plan that was almost a carbon copy of those previously endorsed by the Heritage Foundation, Mitt Romney, and other Republicans? The only thing is that it was now supported by a Democratic president that Republicans vowed to fight on every single issue, according to Robert Draper’s book Do Not Ask What Good We Do.

Senior Obama adviser David Axelrod later admitted that Romney’s Massachusetts plan was the “template” for Obama’s plan. “That work inspired our own health plan,” he said in 2011. But no one in the White House said so back in 2009. I once asked a senior Obama aide why. His answer was that once Republicans refused to negotiate on health reform and Obama had to win only with Democratic votes, it would have been counterproductive, politically, to point out the Obama plan’s Republican roots.

The left wing of the House Democratic caucus was dubious enough about Obama’s plan as it was, preferring a single-payer plan. Thus it was necessary for Obama to portray his plan as more liberal than it really was to get the Democratic votes needed for passage, which of course played right into the Republicans’ hands. But the reality is that ACA remains a very modest reform based on Republican and conservative ideas.



 
I thought we knew this already, at least I'm sure it's been mentioned here before. I still prefer our system but to each his own.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 - 2:37pm

just got a notice from my ins co

my plan is going away as of dec 31

new premiums?

i'm getting jacked

or i can take my chances on the state's new exchange

where's my bailout?


sirdroseph
Endeavor to Perservere
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Location: Yes
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Zodiac: Sagittarius
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Oct 22, 2014 - 11:07am

Another part of article I posted on another thread, but this succinctly articulates what I have been saying about ACA.  This highlights the extreme hypocrisy of both the so called conservatives who oppose the ACA and the so called liberals who support it:

Health Reform

Contrary to rants that Obama’s 2010 health reform, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA), is the most socialistic legislation in American history, the reality is that it is virtually textbook Republican health policy, with a pedigree from the Heritage Foundation and Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, among others.

It’s important to remember that historically the left-Democratic approach to healthcare reform was always based on a fully government-run system such as Medicare or Medicaid. During debate on health reform in 2009, this approach was called “single payer,” with the government being the single payer. One benefit of this approach is cost control: the government could use its monopsony buying power to force down prices just as Walmart does with its suppliers.

Conservatives wanted to avoid too much government control and were adamantly opposed to single-payer. But they recognized that certain problems required more than a pure free-market solution. One problem in particular is covering people with pre-existing conditions, one of the most popular provisions in ACA. The difficulty is that people may wait until they get sick before buying insurance and then expect full coverage for their conditions. Obviously, this free-rider problem would bankrupt the health-insurance system unless there was a fix.

The conservative solution was the individual mandate—forcing people to buy private health insurance, with subsidies for the poor. This approach was first put forward by Heritage Foundation economist Stuart Butler in a 1989 paper, “A Framework for Reform,” published in a Heritage Foundation book, A National Health System for America. In it, Butler said the number one element of a conservative health system was this: “Every resident of the U.S. must, by law, be enrolled in an adequate health care plan to cover major health costs.” He went on to say:

Under this arrangement, all households would be required to protect themselves from major medical costs by purchasing health insurance or enrolling in a prepaid health plan. The degree of financial protection can be debated, but the principle of mandatory family protection is central to a universal health care system in America.

In 1991, prominent conservative health economist Mark V. Pauley also endorsed the individual mandate as central to healthcare reform. In an article in the journal Health Affairs, Pauley said:

All citizens should be required to obtain a basic level of health insurance. Not having health insurance imposes a risk of delaying medical care; it also may impose costs on others, because we as a society provide care to the uninsured. … Permitting individuals to remain uninsured results in inefficient use of medical care, inequity in the incidence of costs of uncompensated care, and tax-related distortions.

In 2004, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) endorsed an individual mandate in a speech to the National Press Club. “I believe higher-income Americans today do have a societal and personal responsibility to cover in some way themselves and their children,” he said. Even libertarian Ron Bailey, writing in Reason, conceded the necessity of a mandate in a November 2004 article titled, “Mandatory Health Insurance Now!” Said Bailey: “Why shouldn’t we require people who now get health care at the expense of the rest of us pay for their coverage themselves? … Mandatory health insurance would not be unlike the laws that require drivers to purchase auto insurance or pay into state-run risk pools.”

Among those enamored with the emerging conservative health reform based on an individual mandate was Mitt Romney, who was elected governor of Massachusetts in 2002. In 2004, he put forward a state health reform plan to which he later added an individual mandate. As Romney explained in June 2005, “No more ‘free riding,’ if you will, where an individual says: ‘I’m not going to pay, even though I can afford it. I’m not going to get insurance, even though I can afford it. I’m instead going to just show up and make the taxpayers pay for me’.”

The following month, Romney emphasized his point: “We can’t have as a nation 40 million people—or, in my state, half a million—saying, ‘I don’t have insurance, and if I get sick, I want someone else to pay’.”

In 2006, Governor Romney signed the Massachusetts health reform into law, including the individual mandate. Defending his legislation in a Wall Street Journal article, he said:

I proposed that everyone must either purchase a product of their choice or demonstrate that they can pay for their own health care. It’s a personal responsibility principle.

Some of my libertarian friends balk at what looks like an individual mandate. But remember, someone has to pay for the health care that must, by law, be provided: Either the individual pays or the taxpayers pay. A free ride on government is not libertarian.

As late as 2008, Robert Moffitt of the Heritage Foundation was still defending the individual mandate as reasonable, non-ideological and nonpartisan in an article for the Harvard Health Policy Review.

So what changed just a year later, when Obama put forward a health-reform plan that was almost a carbon copy of those previously endorsed by the Heritage Foundation, Mitt Romney, and other Republicans? The only thing is that it was now supported by a Democratic president that Republicans vowed to fight on every single issue, according to Robert Draper’s book Do Not Ask What Good We Do.

Senior Obama adviser David Axelrod later admitted that Romney’s Massachusetts plan was the “template” for Obama’s plan. “That work inspired our own health plan,” he said in 2011. But no one in the White House said so back in 2009. I once asked a senior Obama aide why. His answer was that once Republicans refused to negotiate on health reform and Obama had to win only with Democratic votes, it would have been counterproductive, politically, to point out the Obama plan’s Republican roots.

The left wing of the House Democratic caucus was dubious enough about Obama’s plan as it was, preferring a single-payer plan. Thus it was necessary for Obama to portray his plan as more liberal than it really was to get the Democratic votes needed for passage, which of course played right into the Republicans’ hands. But the reality is that ACA remains a very modest reform based on Republican and conservative ideas.




kurtster
ignore the kitteh behind the kurtain
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Location: counting flowers on the wall ...
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Libra
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Jul 30, 2014 - 5:09am

 BlueHeronDruid wrote:

Pick one and get the care you need NOW. Your foot isn't going to wait too long, right? You can always change next enrollment period.

 
FWIW, we have Anthem as a provider for several years now and are happy.  They do have people that will call you and follow up as well as you can ask them questions for concerns.

Its about who has the biggest network and doctors closest to you.  Anthem is a big national, which can be a good thing these days. And yes, you can always change the next enrollment period if it doesn't work as well as you hope.

 
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 30, 2014 - 5:02am

 BlueHeronDruid wrote:

Pick one and get the care you need NOW. Your foot isn't going to wait too long, right? You can always change next enrollment period.

 
i agree

take some action there dude

chin sac up please
Manbird
Offal Makes Me Strong! Strong! Strong! Weak! Strong! Strong! Strong! Strong! Strong! Strong!
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Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Virgo


Posted: Jul 29, 2014 - 10:11pm

 BlueHeronDruid wrote:

Pick one and get the care you need NOW. Your foot isn't going to wait too long, right? You can always change next enrollment period.

 
I'll call the county medical tomorrow and talk to someone. they have some people there just for that.
I know I saw a ratings guide and the one I wanted to pick has a big hand-made
sign on their building that says NO OBAMACARES ACCEPTED HERE!!! 
Is this red neck country or what? Once again, the autistic gets to scrape the
bottom of the barrel. 
BlueHeronDruid
no longer accepting hot potatoes
BlueHeronDruid Avatar



Posted: Jul 29, 2014 - 10:03pm

 Manbird wrote:
I have some kind of obamacare/medical and they gave me 3 choices of plans. One eas kaiser so I picked that one.
Then they call and said I couldn't pick kaiser unless I was already a member for at least a year. Now I have two to pick
from:California Health and Wellness or Anthem. How do I know which to pick> Jeez, what a runaround. I'm thinking about
keeping the guy I was seeing in Santa Rosa but he's so far. I have a feeling whatever I pick, it's going to be shit
quality care. 

 
Pick one and get the care you need NOW. Your foot isn't going to wait too long, right? You can always change next enrollment period.
Manbird
Offal Makes Me Strong! Strong! Strong! Weak! Strong! Strong! Strong! Strong! Strong! Strong!
Manbird Avatar

Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Virgo


Posted: Jul 29, 2014 - 9:52pm

I have some kind of obamacare/medical and they gave me 3 choices of plans. One eas kaiser so I picked that one.
Then they call and said I couldn't pick kaiser unless I was already a member for at least a year. Now I have two to pick
from:California Health and Wellness or Anthem. How do I know which to pick> Jeez, what a runaround. I'm thinking about
keeping the guy I was seeing in Santa Rosa but he's so far. I have a feeling whatever I pick, it's going to be shit
quality care. 


LizK

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Location: Houston, Texas
Zodiac: Libra
Chinese Yr: Buffalo


Posted: Jul 29, 2014 - 8:54pm

 kurtster wrote:

The VA did a lot to help keep my Dad going his last 10 or so years and he had Medicare with a damn good supplement.  But that wasn't enough.  The help he got from the VA especially with Rx medicines the folks couldn't have otherwise afforded made all the difference.

There is no panacea to our health care mess.  When it comes to quality health care, more choices and options are better.  Obamacare is the opposite fewer choices designed to meet all needs.  That is impossible, period end of story.  One size never fits all.  Will never come close and in medicine, close is no cigar.

Having said that, the VA is broken beyond repair.  It needs to be replaced, or at the very least all Vets should have the VA pay their bills in private facilities when the VA cannot provide them in a timely fashion or is simply not close enough for our veterans to easily reach.  This can be done right now, with the stroke of a President;s pen.  WTF is he waiting for ? 
Oh and welcome to the loony bin ...

  "Vets should have the VA pay their bills in private facilities when the VA cannot provide them in a timely fashion."  That Bill is becoming law as we speak. - 07-29-14


RichardPrins
Anti-Procrustean
RichardPrins Avatar



Posted: Jul 27, 2014 - 10:07am

Keep spending/whining... {#Mrgreen}

Why Anti-Obamacare Ads Actually Increased Obamacare Enrollment
Opponents of the Affordable Care Act outspent Obamacare's proponents 15-to-one, but they might have been funding their rivals' cause.

kurtster
ignore the kitteh behind the kurtain
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Location: counting flowers on the wall ...
Gender: Male
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Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 6:03pm

 expertTexpert wrote:

The Koch Brothers Want To Scare The Obamacare Out Of You

What the heck? Have we no shame?

"Brawndo. It's got electrolytes."

 
Brawndo, its what George Soros has for breakfast !

Since yer new around here, every time you bring up the Koch bros there is an obligation to respond with a Soros reference.

Carry on ... 


ScottN
"Thought for today" has been postponed until tomorrow.
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Location: An inch above the K/T boundary. But smth near fracking still has appeal.
Gender: Male
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Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 2:11pm

 expertTexpert wrote:
Not surprising, sadly, that you were insured. The little graph I posted notes that it's usually the case (78%).
The ACA has faults, but the goal of eliminating these crap policies was an important, necessary, part of its implementation.

*shakes fist a ScottN's kidney, and the folks that crafted a crap insurance policy* 

Yes. I knew that.  The policy did pay a bit.  The policy's primary value was in getting me decent care w/minimum hassle.  The hospital saw I was insured and admitted me, though this was not an "ER" situation and they had no obligation to do so.  I had many chats with the acct'g folk at the hospital following treatment.   They said they are frequently blind-sided too by lousy insurance policies.  It was their *whispered* advice to file br when they became aware of my overall financial situation.
ScottN
"Thought for today" has been postponed until tomorrow.
ScottN Avatar

Location: An inch above the K/T boundary. But smth near fracking still has appeal.
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Aries
Chinese Yr: Buffalo


Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 1:34pm

 expertTexpert wrote:

Sorry to hear. And, sadly, you have plenty of company.

.... 
btw, I had insurance. Obviously it was very deficient.  A policy that would not be valid under ACA now.  My kidney timed it all wrong.

ScottN
"Thought for today" has been postponed until tomorrow.
ScottN Avatar

Location: An inch above the K/T boundary. But smth near fracking still has appeal.
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Aries
Chinese Yr: Buffalo


Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 1:26pm

 expertTexpert wrote:

That's an excellent point. The politics surrounding the "one term President" made it imperative that he not get any credit for any positive work. (Step one: he's not even from America!)
Identifying the obvious need for universal health care, for reform of the outrageous cost/care delivery problem that Americans face, and trying to make progress - it was doomed from the moment he espoused it.

Not because providing health care to all Americans is wrong. It's right for many many reasons.
But it was obstructed because of who he is. (Socialist! Liar! Egomaniac!)

The millions of uninsured Americans, or those that are poorly insured by scam companies, or those paying exorbitant sums that bankrupt them, or the people struggling through the VA system - all of those people are frustrated or ill or going to die young to make sure we have a one term President. Otherwise, our "leaders" could've compromised on something much more useful.

But, like they say in golf: play the ball from where it lies.
From where we are now, how can we protect our citizenry from illness and bankruptcy? Neither of those things seem good for our nation.
 
I declared a medical cost induced bankruptcy two weeks ago, so I know.  Hindsight certainly shows alternatives that would have been better, but were not thought feasible at the time.  Additionally, the ACA is tremendously complex (note recent court rulings).  We simply have to get  to UHC and that will take a new POTUS and Congress to do. 

"As if", say the lobbies.


ScottN
"Thought for today" has been postponed until tomorrow.
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Location: An inch above the K/T boundary. But smth near fracking still has appeal.
Gender: Male
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Chinese Yr: Buffalo


Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 12:43pm

 sirdroseph wrote:
I agree, it is just too bad we have a President that not only did not push for that, but implemented a plan that continues to line the pockets of the for profit insurance companies and at the same time decreasing freedom even more by putting the burden on the middle and lower middle class forcing those that cannot afford insurance to enter into the poor coverage heath insurance debacle like the rest of us and maybe get reinbursed for it down the beaurocratic line as these families struggle to buy groceries because of their new "gift" premium. All implemented by our good trustworthy friends at the IRS.{#Rolleyes}  Why? All for his legacy so he can say he pushed through "affordable health care for everyone".  What a joke.
 
UHC was his first choice.  It was declared not doable by congressional leaders. The ACA was seen as the next best thing.  It has faults—everybody can see that, but imo, is better than what is in effect prior to its enactment.

Hilary Clinton tried for UHC back in '93/94 and got nowhere.  The HC and Big Pharma lobbies are too strong to allow government to shake their money trees.
I don't think Obama made a very good strategic move by accepting, as he did during his re-election, the moniker Obamacare.  Too many people detest him and it gets in the way of clear thinking and progress.  The ACA is/was intended to be a step to UHC.
DaveInVA
Single, unwanted, unloved eccentric, crusty ol' fart with cats
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Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 12:30pm

ObamaCare getaway: 5 US territories released from health care law


sirdroseph
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Posted: Jul 24, 2014 - 4:03am

 ScottN wrote:

Yes, far, far, too sensible.  The people making billions off the current for-profit HC system in America will never allow it.  It's not "freedom" {#Doh}.

 

I agree, it is just too bad we have a President that not only did not push for that, but implemented a plan that continues to line the pockets of the for profit insurance companies and at the same time decreasing freedom even more by putting the burden on the middle and lower middle class forcing those that cannot afford insurance to enter into the poor coverage heath insurance debacle like the rest of us and maybe get reinbursed for it down the beaurocratic line as these families struggle to buy groceries because of their new "gift" premium. All implemented by our good trustworthy friends at the IRS.{#Rolleyes}  Why? All for his legacy so he can say he pushed through "affordable health care for everyone".  What a joke.


kurtster
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Posted: Jul 23, 2014 - 6:28pm

 expertTexpert wrote:

If we insure everyone in our nation, then the VA as a general health care system is irrelevant except for satellite government clinics that deal with their specific battle-related issues.
Otherwise, our vets' general healthcare is covered by other private companies and we don't need the government-run hospitals and the costs/inefficiency that accompany. Our obligation to our servicemen/women would be to cover their insurance costs, not provide structures and staff that are less efficient than other systems that exist.

The hard part: we need to have the general health care infrastructure that can care for so many new insured. Part of that can be the re-definition of what the county hospitals do. You don't need those any more if everyone has insurance. Absorb their infrastructure into existing health care systems (Blue Cross, etc) when possible to make sure we have the facilities and people. They're just not paid by the state tax dollars any more.

 
The VA did a lot to help keep my Dad going his last 10 or so years and he had Medicare with a damn good supplement.  But that wasn't enough.  The help he got from the VA especially with Rx medicines the folks couldn't have otherwise afforded made all the difference.

There is no panacea to our health care mess.  When it comes to quality health care, more choices and options are better.  Obamacare is the opposite fewer choices designed to meet all needs.  That is impossible, period end of story.  One size never fits all.  Will never come close and in medicine, close is no cigar.

Having said that, the VA is broken beyond repair.  It needs to be replaced, or at the very least all Vets should have the VA pay their bills in private facilities when the VA cannot provide them in a timely fashion or is simply not close enough for our veterans to easily reach.  This can be done right now, with the stroke of a President;s pen.  WTF is he waiting for ? 
Oh and welcome to the loony bin ...
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Posted: Jul 23, 2014 - 4:28pm

Statistics released today:
From  beginning of enrollment in October 2013 through April 2014, the number of uninsured in America decreased from 21 percent to 16 percent. 10.3 million went from previously uninsured to insured. 
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