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miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 10:00am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

I thought it was a reference to Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which I just realized co-starred Benicio. Hmm. 

 
sorry i'm a little dull (i blame lack of mental bandwidth)

however, i can and do fear and loathe everywhere

"if i'm not terrified, i'm not paying attention"
ScottFromWyoming
I eat pints
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Location: Powell
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Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 9:51am

 miamizsun wrote:

srsly i'm glad i caught the flying of the bats

it was on my bucket list

 
I thought it was a reference to Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which I just realized co-starred Benicio. Hmm. 
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 9:30am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Izzat Benicio del Toro?

 
no but i have the grimace down

it's a combo of a large meal, full bladder and the july heat in austin

the sun couldn't go down fast enough...

srsly i'm glad i caught the flying of the bats

it was on my bucket list
ScottFromWyoming
I eat pints
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Location: Powell
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Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 9:22am

 miamizsun wrote: 
Izzat Benicio del Toro?
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 9:02am

 cc_rider wrote:

There are no wide open spaces between the two anymore. Endless strip malls and big boxes. Depressing, really.

Austin has become so expensive long-time residents are being taxed out of their homes. They have to move out just to keep their heads above water. Texas' property tax system, particularly school finance, is a colossal mess. The Lege famously enacts laws that can charitably be called 'Let's Screw Austin'.

c.

 
yeah traveling from sa to austin i stopped to eat and buy some socks

about thirty five years ago i took a road trip

there are places out there so flat you could see tomorrow coming



cc_rider
Strange but not a stranger.
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Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 8:35am

 miamizsun wrote:

i apologize for not being clear

i wasn't referring to political buffoonery (even tho this is the gop thread)

i was referring to newer economic growth along i-35 between the san antonio and austin

regards

 
There are no wide open spaces between the two anymore. Endless strip malls and big boxes. Depressing, really.

Austin has become so expensive long-time residents are being taxed out of their homes. They have to move out just to keep their heads above water. Texas' property tax system, particularly school finance, is a colossal mess. The Lege famously enacts laws that can charitably be called 'Let's Screw Austin'.

c.
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 5:45am

 maryte wrote:

No, this is not a trend. This was an act of disenfranchisement. I know personally because at the time this happened, I had moved from San Antonio to Austin. The seventh (San Antonio) and eleventh (Austin) most populous cities in the United States have far less in common with each other than you apparently realize. 

 
i apologize for not being clear

i wasn't referring to political buffoonery (even tho this is the gop thread)

i was referring to newer economic growth along i-35 between the san antonio and austin

regards
maryte
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Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 5:39am

 miamizsun wrote:

sorta looks like a map of my inner ear

there's a lot of economic activity along I-35 there

i believe it's more than a trend and we will eventually see a lot more (esp south of austin)

 
No, this is not a trend. This was an act of disenfranchisement. I know personally because at the time this happened, I had moved from San Antonio to Austin. The seventh (San Antonio) and eleventh (Austin) most populous cities in the United States have far less in common with each other than you apparently realize. 
miamizsun

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Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 5:03am

 cc_rider wrote:

True, but there are some divisions, like counties, that would require human tweaking. Plus things like neighborhoods that cross county lines (or whatever dividing line): assuming neighborhoods shares similar interests, splitting them would dilute their vote.

Texas' districts are an embarrassment, mostly drawn to unseat Lloyd Doggett - a consistent thorn in the GOP's side. Despite their best efforts, he is still there. This is what his district looked like as of 2012-ish:

Lloyd Doggett district

 
sorta looks like a map of my inner ear

there's a lot of economic activity along I-35 there

i believe it's more than a trend and we will eventually see a lot more (esp south of austin)
Lazy8
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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 3:03pm

 haresfur wrote:
So what term would you use?

Gerrymandering is an abuse of power. We don't need to call it any more than that.
miamizsun

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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 2:49pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:

Why would county/town limits matter? Simply create districts based ENTIRELY on population - no other consideration.

 

people should be free to choose their own gods
haresfur
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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 1:44pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Proclivities wrote:
Treason, by the U.S, Code, is defined as: "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason..."  By that definition, Confederates firing on Fort Sumter and engaging in the Civil War were committing treason, but I agree, gerrymandering is not treason.
  Though gerrymandering has been going on in NC for many years, the recent gerrymandering issue has a lot to do with the State General Assembly not being said to be not representative of, or proportionate to the state's population.  The larger and more populated areas (especially the larger cities), are largely Democratic and/or minority populations, and are outnumbered by the rural and less-populated districts (which are mostly Conservatives and/or Republicans) in terms of representatives.  Most of the state has been carved up to concede and isolate the "non-Republican" areas.

Yes, as I said.

If I'm parsing the second paragraph correctly you seem to be implying that Republicans are enemies of the state, or that redistricting is war, or some such, which was my objection to use of the term treason. Hyperbole is fun, but it's fun that's destructive to rational discourse and doesn't contribute to actually solving the problems cited.

 
So what term would you use?
ScottFromWyoming
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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 12:48pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:

Why would county/town limits matter? Simply create districts based ENTIRELY on population - no other consideration.

 
My county has two towns in it. One gets a state rep, while the other has two... whose alliances are pulled toward the rural areas and even the next county. So the other town has representation for itself while we get essentially nothing, no advocate for our town's specific needs.
 
We've already chosen to gather together as a community. The districting system has split that community. The people who live in the country would rather have someone in the state house to advocate for them and not the cities, and vice versa.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 11:58am

 cc_rider wrote:

True, but there are some divisions, like counties, that would require human tweaking. Plus things like neighborhoods that cross county lines (or whatever dividing line): assuming neighborhoods shares similar interests, splitting them would dilute their vote.

Texas' districts are an embarrassment, mostly drawn to unseat Lloyd Doggett - a consistent thorn in the GOP's side. Despite their best efforts, he is still there. This is what his district looked like as of 2012-ish:

Lloyd Doggett district

 
Why would county/town limits matter? Simply create districts based ENTIRELY on population - no other consideration.
cc_rider
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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 11:40am

 Red_Dragon wrote:

The whole process could be automated - take the human element out of it entirely.

 
True, but there are some divisions, like counties, that would require human tweaking. Plus things like neighborhoods that cross county lines (or whatever dividing line): assuming neighborhoods shares similar interests, splitting them would dilute their vote.

Texas' districts are an embarrassment, mostly drawn to unseat Lloyd Doggett - a consistent thorn in the GOP's side. Despite their best efforts, he is still there. This is what his district looked like as of 2012-ish:

Lloyd Doggett district
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 10:41am

 cc_rider wrote:

It's a vicious cycle: the party in power doesn't want to change the system, because they have the advantage, and the votes to prevent change.

I'd like to see independent redistricting commissions, with equal members of both parties, or better yet non-politicians. Start with a computer-generated chart indicating the most compact regions with equal populations.

 
The whole process could be automated - take the human element out of it entirely.
cc_rider
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Location: Bastrop
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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 10:21am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
Which is exactly why the apportionment process should be removed from their control.
 
It's a vicious cycle: the party in power doesn't want to change the system, because they have the advantage, and the votes to prevent change.

I'd like to see independent redistricting commissions, with equal members of both parties, or better yet non-politicians. Start with a computer-generated chart indicating the most compact regions with equal populations.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 8:30am

 Proclivities wrote:

No, I didn't mean to imply that the NC Republicans are acting as enemies of the state or being "treasonous"; they're just pursuing their own political gains, as all political parties do. Maybe my wording was too vague. In past decades the NC Democrats did a lot of gerrymandering while they were the majority, it just seldom came under the scrutiny of Federal courts.  I don't consider gerrymandering to be treasonous (sneaky or dishonest perhaps), and was roughly explaining part of the possible reasoning behind why the latest Republican gerrymandering moves have been deemed unconstitutional by the Federal courts.  It's been a big topic of discussion around here for a while, especially since the newly-elected Democratic governor is at odds with the Republican-majority assembly.

 
Which is exactly why the apportionment process should be removed from their control.
Proclivities
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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 8:17am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Proclivities wrote:
Treason, by the U.S, Code, is defined as: "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason..."  By that definition, Confederates firing on Fort Sumter and engaging in the Civil War were committing treason, but I agree, gerrymandering is not treason.
  Though gerrymandering has been going on in NC for many years, the recent gerrymandering issue has a lot to do with the State General Assembly not being said to be not representative of, or proportionate to the state's population.  The larger and more populated areas (especially the larger cities), are largely Democratic and/or minority populations, and are outnumbered by the rural and less-populated districts (which are mostly Conservatives and/or Republicans) in terms of representatives.  Most of the state has been carved up to concede and isolate the "non-Republican" areas.

Yes, as I said.

If I'm parsing the second paragraph correctly you seem to be implying that Republicans are enemies of the state, or that redistricting is war, or some such, which was my objection to use of the term treason. Hyperbole is fun, but it's fun that's destructive to rational discourse and doesn't contribute to actually solving the problems cited.

 
No, I didn't mean to imply that the NC Republicans are acting as enemies of the state or being "treasonous"; they're just pursuing their own political gains, as all political parties do. Maybe my wording was too vague. In past decades the NC Democrats did a lot of gerrymandering while they were the majority, it just seldom came under the scrutiny of Federal courts.  I don't consider gerrymandering to be treasonous (sneaky or dishonest perhaps), and was roughly explaining part of the possible reasoning behind why the latest Republican gerrymandering moves have been deemed unconstitutional by the Federal courts.  It's been a big topic of discussion around here for a while, especially since the newly-elected Democratic governor is at odds with the Republican-majority assembly.
Lazy8
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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 8:02am

 Proclivities wrote:
Treason, by the U.S, Code, is defined as: "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason..."  By that definition, Confederates firing on Fort Sumter and engaging in the Civil War were committing treason, but I agree, gerrymandering is not treason.
  Though gerrymandering has been going on in NC for many years, the recent gerrymandering issue has a lot to do with the State General Assembly not being said to be not representative of, or proportionate to the state's population.  The larger and more populated areas (especially the larger cities), are largely Democratic and/or minority populations, and are outnumbered by the rural and less-populated districts (which are mostly Conservatives and/or Republicans) in terms of representatives.  Most of the state has been carved up to concede and isolate the "non-Republican" areas.

Yes, as I said.

If I'm parsing the second paragraph correctly you seem to be implying that Republicans are enemies of the state, or that redistricting is war, or some such, which was my objection to use of the term treason. Hyperbole is fun, but it's fun that's destructive to rational discourse and doesn't contribute to actually solving the problems cited.
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