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Trump - R_P - Jun 24, 2018 - 1:19pm
 
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 1:19pm

Ex-White House ethics chief: Sarah Sanders tweet violates ethics laws

(...) Stephanie Wilkinson, the co-owner of the restaurant, said she asked Sanders and her family to leave because of previous comments she had made defending the Trump administration’s ban on transgender military members.

The restaurant employs several LGBT employees, some of whom voiced concerns over having to serve Sanders, Wilkinson told The Washington Post.

“I’m not a huge fan of confrontation,” Wilkinson added. “I have a business, and I want the business to thrive. This feels like the moment in our democracy when people have to make uncomfortable actions and decisions to uphold their morals.” (...)

Ethics? We don't need no stinkin'...
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 12:20pm

 steeler wrote:
Edit:  Do you really see your role as a Trump supporter here — or even the Trump supporter here, as you often say —  as requiring you to adhere to a kind of domino theory:  If I concede anything that will just lead to losses on issues I actually care about so I have to draw this line in the sand every single time, on every single issue or argument?   
 
Zero-sum game: any (real or perceived) loss for my side will be a gain for their side.
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 12:02pm

 kurtster wrote:

im·mu·ta·ble
i(m)ˈmyo͞odəb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
unchanging over time or unable to be changed.
"an immutable fact"
synonyms: fixed, set, rigid, inflexible, permanent, established, carved in stone;

It is clearly established what she is ...

And the only reason she was refused service is because of who or what she is.

 
Not something I really wanted to get into . . . and I will say that I would not have refused to serve her . . . .

But you are wrong on this as a matter of law. Being Trump's press secretary, being a Republican, being a conservative, believing in separating children from parents who enter the U.S. illegally, none of those things would be considered to be immutable characteristics of one's identity/being deserving of legal protection.  I'm sure you must know that.

      
Edit:  Do you really see your role as a Trump supporter here — or even the Trump supporter here, as you often say —  as requiring you to adhere to a kind of domino theory:  If I concede anything that will just lead to losses on issues I actually care about so I have to draw this line in the sand every single time, on every single issue or argument?    


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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 11:41am

 kurtster wrote:
Well then the same can be said for gay / lesbian, right ?
 
Some studies with twins suggest that homosexuality is influenced by genetic/epigenetic factors. Abhorrent political behaviour very likely isn't. It's learned behaviour (esp. among those with high church attendance of the conservative variety).
 
Regardless, gays/lesbians would be considered a protected class. Bigoted Republicans aren't (yet).

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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 11:38am

 kurtster wrote:

Well then the same can be said for gay / lesbian, right ?

 
That they shouldn't be discriminated against for what they innately are. They should get a cake when they ask.
We shouldn't be refusing service because of skin color, height, gender.

But she can be refused service because of her choices, because of the behavior. We don't have to obligate business to serve bullies or disruptive people either.
Sure. This makes sense.


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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 11:17am

 Steely_D wrote:

White?
Female?
Brunette?

That's who she is.

She was tossed because of her behavior, not her genome.

 
Well then the same can be said for gay / lesbian, right ?
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 11:15am

 kurtster wrote:
I would disagree.  Sanders was tossed because of what she was, not for her behaviour.

Was she being disruptive in her behaviour as a patron and that is what she got tossed for ?  I think not.

She was tossed just for being who she is.
 
She got tossed for both who and what she is (a lying Trump lackey). There is no protection against discrimination for your political perspective, unlike other forms of discrimination. See the New York bar case where an idiot claimed his Trumpism was a spiritual matter. His case got tossed too.
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 11:13am

 kurtster wrote:

I would disagree.  Sanders was tossed because of what she was, not for her behaviour.

Was she being disruptive in her behaviour as a patron and that is what she got tossed for ?  I think not.

She was tossed just for being who she is.
 
White?
Female?
Brunette?

That's who she is.

She was tossed because of her behavior, not her genome.
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 11:11am

 steeler wrote:

Legal protections against discrimination in public accommodations focus upon immutable characteristics.      

 

im·mu·ta·ble
i(m)ˈmyo͞odəb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
unchanging over time or unable to be changed.
"an immutable fact"
synonyms: fixed, set, rigid, inflexible, permanent, established, carved in stone;

It is clearly established what she is ...

And the only reason she was refused service is because of who or what she is.
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 11:05am

 kurtster wrote:

I would disagree.  Sanders was tossed because of what she was, not for her behaviour.

Was she being disruptive in her behaviour as a patron and that is what she got tossed for ?  I think not.

She was tossed just for being who she is.

 
Legal protections against discrimination in public accommodations focus upon immutable characteristics.      
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 10:56am

 Steely_D wrote:


So we're needing to separate out racism (hate you for your race, which is prejudice) from behavior (hate you for what you're doing, which is not PRE-judging).

Is it OK to hate someone for their behavior?


Secondary: are businesses obligated to serve everyone, regardless? Can they discriminate ("no shirt, no shoes, no service" or "members only") or must they take care of everyone that wants the service. Like, for instance, a gay couple who wants a wedding cake. Is the business mandated or can they refuse?

 
I would disagree.  Sanders was tossed because of what she was, not for her behaviour.

Was she being disruptive in her behaviour as a patron and that is what she got tossed for ?  I think not.

She was tossed just for being who she is.


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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 10:38am

 kurtster wrote:
She is still the victim of hate, no matter how you look at it.
 

So we're needing to separate out racism (hate you for your race, which is prejudice) from behavior (hate you for what you're doing, which is not PRE-judging).

Is it OK to hate someone for their behavior?


Secondary: are businesses obligated to serve everyone, regardless? Can they discriminate ("no shirt, no shoes, no service" or "members only") or must they take care of everyone that wants the service. Like, for instance, a gay couple who wants a wedding cake. Is the business mandated or can they refuse?
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 10:37am

 kurtster wrote:
I bet if Sanders was black or hispanic or anything but white, it would have been a whole lot more interesting. 

She is still the victim of hate, no matter how you look at it.
 
Or gay/lesbian...
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 10:34am

 R_P wrote:
Restaurant owner kicks Sarah Sanders out, sparks online review war
(...) Earlier this week, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was chased out of a Mexican restaurant in Washington DC by angry patrons over the administration’s controversial ‘zero tolerance’ illegal immigration policy that sees children separated from their parents. Trump adviser Stephen Miller, thought to be the architect of the policy, was also heckled and called a fascist whilst dining in a different Mexican restaurant in Washington DC last Sunday.


 
I bet if Sanders was black or hispanic or anything but white, it would have been a whole lot more interesting. 

She is still the victim of hate, no matter how you look at it.
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Posted: Jun 24, 2018 - 10:28am

 kcar wrote:
 R_P wrote:

So what you appear to be saying is that illegal immigrants are pieces of shit, and if they bring their children they're even bigger pieces of shit.
 

Even though those immigrants are often fleeing horrific conditions in their home country.  

spammer, do you have train to hate a whole group of people? Like you'd train for an triathlon? 

 
Nope.I didn't train for that.

However,when I first started my(successful) attempt to establish a 6 figure scholarship fund for the children of some illegal immigrants,well,I needed a bit of legal assistance setting that up.I guess that could be considered training.

And you have done what exactly to help regarding this situation except spew random hatred on the internet?Time donated?Charitable pro bono work? Donations? ANYTHING AT ALL?I bet you have cans of food hoarded away that you'd rather treat as treasures than donate to the needy.I see right through you.


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Posted: Jun 23, 2018 - 4:29pm

Oh look, another 180.
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Posted: Jun 23, 2018 - 2:18pm

Restaurant owner kicks Sarah Sanders out, sparks online review war
(...) Earlier this week, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was chased out of a Mexican restaurant in Washington DC by angry patrons over the administration’s controversial ‘zero tolerance’ illegal immigration policy that sees children separated from their parents. Trump adviser Stephen Miller, thought to be the architect of the policy, was also heckled and called a fascist whilst dining in a different Mexican restaurant in Washington DC last Sunday.

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Posted: Jun 23, 2018 - 10:59am

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/06/britains-russia-collusion-scandal-looks-just-like-trumps.html

Britain Has a Russia Collusion Scandal Now. It Looks Exactly Like Trump’s.

By @jonathanchait

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Posted: Jun 23, 2018 - 1:49am

The Schizoid-in-chief
US President Donald Trump extended sanctions against North Korea for one year, saying the country still posed an "extraordinary threat" despite insisting just days earlier that Pyongyang was no longer a nuclear danger to the US.

The sanctions, which were renewed on Friday, were originally introduced under an executive order originally put in place in 2008.

After his talks with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un in Singapore on June 12, Trump had said that sanctions would not be lifted on Pyongyang until further progress was made on its denuclearisation. 

However, he also tweeted that, "Everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."

Friday's order said that the "existence and risk of proliferation of weapons-usable fissile material on the Korean Peninsula and the actions and policies of the government of North Korea continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States."

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Posted: Jun 22, 2018 - 6:20pm

 kcar wrote:
Sloppy reporting, admittedly: the girl in the Time Magazine cover photo was not separated from her mom. But thousands of kids have been and that's not #FAKENEWS, much as you'd like it to be.
 
Uhm, who was exploiting kids (as a deterrent/bargaining chip)?
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