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Trump - Steely_D - Feb 21, 2018 - 9:08am
 
Guns - Steely_D - Feb 21, 2018 - 9:06am
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos; Please Limit to 510 ... - ScottFromWyoming - Feb 21, 2018 - 9:03am
 
Baseball, anyone? - spammer - Feb 21, 2018 - 8:55am
 
Things you Thought Yesterday that You Were Just Reminded ... - Proclivities - Feb 21, 2018 - 7:48am
 
Bad Poetry - oldviolin - Feb 21, 2018 - 7:13am
 
FOUR WORDS - sdwright - Feb 21, 2018 - 7:13am
 
Things that piss me off - helenofjoy - Feb 21, 2018 - 6:58am
 
Things You Thought Today - helenofjoy - Feb 21, 2018 - 6:48am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - helenofjoy - Feb 21, 2018 - 6:40am
 
Animal Cruelty / Factory Farming - sdwright - Feb 21, 2018 - 6:32am
 
Today in History - Coaxial - Feb 21, 2018 - 6:26am
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Feb 21, 2018 - 6:14am
 
Any Nurses out there? - sdwright - Feb 21, 2018 - 5:59am
 
Bill and Rebeca on-air together! - sunybuny - Feb 21, 2018 - 5:57am
 
Band Names !!! - sdwright - Feb 21, 2018 - 5:11am
 
How's the weather? - Southern_Boy - Feb 21, 2018 - 5:08am
 
The war on Funk is over! - rhahl - Feb 21, 2018 - 3:32am
 
Anti-Intellectualism in American Life - R_P - Feb 21, 2018 - 12:55am
 
Live Music - R_P - Feb 20, 2018 - 11:10pm
 
FLAC Roll Out - robt2379 - Feb 20, 2018 - 10:21pm
 
RP Daily Trivia Challenge - KurtfromLaQuinta - Feb 20, 2018 - 8:23pm
 
What Did You Do Today? - KurtfromLaQuinta - Feb 20, 2018 - 8:14pm
 
ten dollar tuesday - Coaxial - Feb 20, 2018 - 7:27pm
 
Classical Music - R_P - Feb 20, 2018 - 7:00pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - R_P - Feb 20, 2018 - 6:41pm
 
What Makes You Laugh? - haresfur - Feb 20, 2018 - 5:23pm
 
Another Gun rampage in The U.S - earthbased - Feb 20, 2018 - 5:18pm
 
OUR CATS!! - lily34 - Feb 20, 2018 - 3:52pm
 
Make Gerbilzendogs Laugh - katzendogs - Feb 20, 2018 - 3:31pm
 
NEED A COMPUTER GEEK! - Red_Dragon - Feb 20, 2018 - 2:58pm
 
RP App for Android - rkray - Feb 20, 2018 - 1:55pm
 
Error: Could not retrieve offline list - rkray - Feb 20, 2018 - 1:49pm
 
Breaking News - Red_Dragon - Feb 20, 2018 - 10:44am
 
the Todd Rundgren topic - steeler - Feb 20, 2018 - 10:21am
 
Strange signs, marquees, billboards, etc. - Coaxial - Feb 20, 2018 - 10:19am
 
Counting with Pictures - pigtail - Feb 20, 2018 - 10:09am
 
Gawd, are we such dumb low lifes?..... Sophie Gregoire T... - cc_rider - Feb 20, 2018 - 9:31am
 
-PUNS- OLYMPICS - sdwright - Feb 20, 2018 - 9:29am
 
Poetry Forum - sdwright - Feb 20, 2018 - 9:17am
 
Russia - sdwright - Feb 20, 2018 - 8:36am
 
Celebrity Face Recognition - sdwright - Feb 20, 2018 - 8:24am
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - Antigone - Feb 20, 2018 - 8:05am
 
What Time Is It ? - Red_Dragon - Feb 20, 2018 - 6:27am
 
They're made out of meat. - sdwright - Feb 20, 2018 - 5:02am
 
• • • • Name My Possum • • • - sdwright - Feb 20, 2018 - 4:34am
 
Where Are The Guns??? - sdwright - Feb 20, 2018 - 3:43am
 
Regarding dogs - haresfur - Feb 19, 2018 - 9:57pm
 
That's good advice - sdwright - Feb 19, 2018 - 9:15pm
 
What's With All the "Fish"? - sdwright - Feb 19, 2018 - 6:04pm
 
What makes you smile? - Coaxial - Feb 19, 2018 - 5:53pm
 
Coffee - sdwright - Feb 19, 2018 - 5:43pm
 
Freedom of speech? - sdwright - Feb 19, 2018 - 4:29pm
 
Favorite President - sdwright - Feb 19, 2018 - 4:13pm
 
Fake News*    ?    ! - sdwright - Feb 19, 2018 - 4:08pm
 
• • •  What's For Dinner ? • • •  - triskele - Feb 19, 2018 - 3:20pm
 
Signs of Spring - kctomato - Feb 19, 2018 - 2:42pm
 
Cache Issue on IPhone5s - Katywu - Feb 19, 2018 - 2:36pm
 
Curling? (Small town news) - haresfur - Feb 19, 2018 - 2:24pm
 
Testing your Metal? - Proclivities - Feb 19, 2018 - 12:47pm
 
China - R_P - Feb 19, 2018 - 10:59am
 
WTF??!! - miamizsun - Feb 19, 2018 - 8:12am
 
Apple HomePod - miamizsun - Feb 19, 2018 - 7:43am
 
The Moon - Proclivities - Feb 19, 2018 - 6:18am
 
Your Current Crush - sdwright - Feb 19, 2018 - 3:29am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - ColdMiser - Feb 18, 2018 - 4:41pm
 
Google's Creative Logos - sdwright - Feb 18, 2018 - 3:20pm
 
What are you listening to now? - SeriousLee - Feb 18, 2018 - 2:55pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - bevgerry - Feb 18, 2018 - 2:42pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - SeriousLee - Feb 18, 2018 - 11:32am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - SeriousLee - Feb 18, 2018 - 11:27am
 
James Brown: The Real Story on CNN - Steely_D - Feb 18, 2018 - 11:13am
 
Olympics - Is anybody interested - sdwright - Feb 18, 2018 - 9:59am
 
True Confessions - Coaxial - Feb 18, 2018 - 9:38am
 
Capitalism and Consumerism... now what? - sdwright - Feb 18, 2018 - 9:06am
 
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Steely_D
Angular banjoes sound good to me.
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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2018 - 9:08am

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
The future's already been written for us.

 
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Feb 21, 2018 - 6:10am

You can't make this stuff up.
R_P
Ni dieu ni maître
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Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 3:26pm


cc_rider
Strange but not a stranger.
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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Cancer
Chinese Yr: Snake


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 2:51pm

 haresfur wrote:

Perhaps, but being able to say, "We've got our eyes on you, son" is a pretty dull tool.

btw, what is the FBI's jurisdiction in this, anyway? Is it their job to run around the country trying to identify wackos? I thought they did interstate crimes. Seems to me the local police would be the first point of contact.

Minor point, there weren't any foster parents - he was an adult and some people were kind enough to give him a roof and a chance. Good for them. They had his guns in a safe and he was supposed to only be able to access the guns through them. They probably should have asked the school why he was kicked out, but what could they have done?

  Sure it's a dull tool, but it's better than nothing.

I think the FBI is also tasked with terroristic-type stuff too, but I also think that thread gets a mite tenuous sometimes.

Good point about the neighbors: he is an adult after all, at least in the eyes of the law. I don't know if the tipster contacted local authorities first, but I agree that seems like the place to start.

It's a sad mess, no matter how you look at it.
c.


haresfur
I get around
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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 12:55pm

 cc_rider wrote:

From what I've gathered, which ain't much, the FBI spoke with the person who raised the concern. But did not talk with the person of concern, the shooter. Or the school, or the foster parents, or pretty much anybody else. Any one of those contacts could have provided more information. They didn't have to break down any doors or even confiscate his (legally owned) weapon. Just pursuing the case a bit further could have changed the outcome.
I understand they cannot possibly chase every tip, and hindsight is 20/20, but the tip was good enough they went to talk with the tipster personally. There were other clues too, but they didn't do any follow-up.

FYI, for hunting fowl and game, guns are limited in capacity and action. It is illegal to hunt deer with an AR-15, for example. Shotguns are limited to three (?) shells: all new shotguns come with a 'plug' that limits their capacity.
That said, feral hogs are an exception. AR-15s are favored by hog hunters. But even then you need a hunting license, etc.
My point? Recreational firearms are already regulated in several ways. The problem is with firearms purchased willy-nilly, upon which you and I agree entirely.
c.

 
Perhaps, but being able to say, "We've got our eyes on you, son" is a pretty dull tool.

btw, what is the FBI's jurisdiction in this, anyway? Is it their job to run around the country trying to identify wackos? I thought they did interstate crimes. Seems to me the local police would be the first point of contact.

Minor point, there weren't any foster parents - he was an adult and some people were kind enough to give him a roof and a chance. Good for them. They had his guns in a safe and he was supposed to only be able to access the guns through them. They probably should have asked the school why he was kicked out, but what could they have done?
Proclivities
“If you can't control your peanut butter, you can't expect to control your life.
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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Aries
Chinese Yr: Tiger


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 11:55am

 kurtster wrote:

We are talking about the SSA and the VA.  They have there own legal systems that act independent from criminal and civil courts, just as the IRS has its own court system where you are assumed guilty and must prove your innocence.

Try this ... happy reading.

SUMMARY
The committee identified a number of points for comparison of the programs reviewed in this chapter, including the overall size of the program, the number of beneficiaries deemed incapable (or comparable determination), potential triggers for capability assessment, types of evidence considered, instructions to informants, appeals processes, and review processes. SSA's programs, both overall and with respect to the number of beneficiaries determined incapable, are significantly larger than all of the other programs examined by the committee.

Among the programs reviewed, SSA guidance provides the most in-depth information on potential triggers that call capability into question. However, a unique aspect of the OPM program in this regard is its use of computerized matching; although such matching is primarily for analysis of benefit disbursement from other programs that may impact OPM benefits, it may also provide information that brings capability into question.


That's not the happiest read I've come across (there aren't even any pictures), but there is some interesting stuff in there.  Apparently, the VA does require medical evidence and SSA only requires "lay evidence" at least - which is pretty disconcerting, depending on who's doing the evaluations.  I don't see how being "incapable of handling one's finances" is equated with "dementia", but perhaps that is the biggest concern.  They can be related and many people may suffer from both disorders, but they are obviously not the same thing.
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Libra
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 11:31am

 Proclivities wrote:

"The legal procedure for declaring a person incompetent consists of three steps: (1) a motion for a competency hearing, (2) a psychiatric or psychological evaluation, and (3) a competency hearing. Probate courts usually handle competency proceedings, which guarantee the allegedly incompetent person Due Process of Law."

 The determinations are not made by clerks at the SSA or by computer algorithms.

 
We are talking about the SSA and the VA.  They have there own reviewing systems that act independent from criminal and civil courts, just as the IRS has its own court system where you are assumed guilty and must prove your innocence.  The definition you provided above has no relevance in these venues.

Try this ... happy reading.

SUMMARY
The committee identified a number of points for comparison of the programs reviewed in this chapter, including the overall size of the program, the number of beneficiaries deemed incapable (or comparable determination), potential triggers for capability assessment, types of evidence considered, instructions to informants, appeals processes, and review processes. SSA's programs, both overall and with respect to the number of beneficiaries determined incapable, are significantly larger than all of the other programs examined by the committee.

Among the programs reviewed, SSA guidance provides the most in-depth information on potential triggers that call capability into question. However, a unique aspect of the OPM program in this regard is its use of computerized matching; although such matching is primarily for analysis of benefit disbursement from other programs that may impact OPM benefits, it may also provide information that brings capability into question.




sdwright
Sink or Swim
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Location: underwater
Gender: Female
Zodiac: Taurus
Chinese Yr: Snake


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 10:06am

 

cc_rider
Strange but not a stranger.
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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Cancer
Chinese Yr: Snake


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 9:13am

 haresfur wrote:
 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Once again, a terrible law.  It prevented people who receive Social Security Disability from buying guns, simply because they receive SSD.  (...) As legitimate recipients of SSD, this directly affected me and my wife. (...)



There's a bit of weird disconnect here with Trump's statements that the FBI somehow should have stopped the shooter before it happened. Like what were they going to do with the tools at their disposal? They couldn't legally keep the gun out of his hands, they couldn't imprison him. I suppose they could have gone, busted down his door and shot him like that poor sod in California or wherever who was killed by police acting on an intentionally false tip.

I suppose you could look at it like any other government program like food stamps where the Republicans want to limit access. I mean no one has to take disability. If owning a gun is that important to you, opt out. Ok, I don't really believe that's a good solution, but there are plenty of other options. If you are in a high risk category, then you can have a double barrel shotgun and hunt ducks to your heart's content. Or a bolt action rifle for deer but not something for blowing away lots of kids. Or just keep anyone from having weapons of mass murder and then it's equitable.

There are several nice things about Australia's gun limits. If someone is running around with a gun illegally, then that means that they can be stopped proactively. If anyone can carry a gun into a burger king then you have no way to prevent gun crimes. Yes, the bikey gangs can get guns. But it's harder and they are harder to replace after you shoot someone and throw them into the ocean. So crims factor that into their decision on whether to blow someone away. Is it worth the trouble and expense to them? People with guns are far more worried about someone stealing them than they are about getting attacked. So they take care to lock them up and have a neighbour look after them when away for extended periods.

 
From what I've gathered, which ain't much, the FBI spoke with the person who raised the concern. But did not talk with the person of concern, the shooter. Or the school, or the foster parents, or pretty much anybody else. Any one of those contacts could have provided more information. They didn't have to break down any doors or even confiscate his (legally owned) weapon. Just pursuing the case a bit further could have changed the outcome.
I understand they cannot possibly chase every tip, and hindsight is 20/20, but the tip was good enough they went to talk with the tipster personally. There were other clues too, but they didn't do any follow-up.

FYI, for hunting fowl and game, guns are limited in capacity and action. It is illegal to hunt deer with an AR-15, for example. Shotguns are limited to three (?) shells: all new shotguns come with a 'plug' that limits their capacity.
That said, feral hogs are an exception. AR-15s are favored by hog hunters. But even then you need a hunting license, etc.
My point? Recreational firearms are already regulated in several ways. The problem is with firearms purchased willy-nilly, upon which you and I agree entirely.
c.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 9:12am

By all accounts, incontrovertible evidence states that a powerful foreign state interfered in our domestic electoral process and the executive in The White House not only fails to take any action, but refuses to even admit the problem. Why? Because he is owned, lock, stock and barrel by that powerful foreign state. This is fine.

Steely_D
Angular banjoes sound good to me.
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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 9:07am

 Proclivities wrote:

"The legal procedure for declaring a person incompetent consists of three steps: (1) a motion for a competency hearing, (2) a psychiatric or psychological evaluation, and (3) a competency hearing. Probate courts usually handle competency proceedings, which guarantee the allegedly incompetent person Due Process of Law."

 The determinations are not made by clerks at the SSA or by computer algorithms.

 
Yet.

 
sdwright
Sink or Swim
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Location: underwater
Gender: Female
Zodiac: Taurus
Chinese Yr: Snake


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 8:16am

 Proclivities wrote:

"The legal procedure for declaring a person incompetent consists of three steps: (1) a motion for a competency hearing, (2) a psychiatric or psychological evaluation, and (3) a competency hearing. Probate courts usually handle competency proceedings, which guarantee the allegedly incompetent person Due Process of Law."

 The determinations are not made by clerks at the SSA or by computer algorithms.

 

islander
Thalassophile
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Location: Seattle
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Scorpio
Chinese Yr: Cock


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 6:38am

 Proclivities wrote:

"The legal procedure for declaring a person incompetent consists of three steps: (1) a motion for a competency hearing, (2) a psychiatric or psychological evaluation, and (3) a competency hearing. Probate courts usually handle competency proceedings, which guarantee the allegedly incompetent person Due Process of Law."

 The determinations are not made by clerks at the SSA or by computer algorithms.

 
I did get a chuckle out of the image of Bob the Bureaucrat, sitting at his desk with the pile of files from H-L and his boss yelling at him - "Have you reviewed those files yet" on Friday afternoon at 4:30. 


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 6:35am

 Proclivities wrote:

"The legal procedure for declaring a person incompetent consists of three steps: (1) a motion for a competency hearing, (2) a psychiatric or psychological evaluation, and (3) a competency hearing. Probate courts usually handle competency proceedings, which guarantee the allegedly incompetent person Due Process of Law."

 The determinations are not made by clerks at the SSA or by computer algorithms.

 
details, details...
Proclivities
“If you can't control your peanut butter, you can't expect to control your life.
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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Aries
Chinese Yr: Tiger


Posted: Feb 20, 2018 - 6:29am

 islander wrote:

Has your wife been deemed incompetent?  Was she placed on the NCIS list?  Was she prevented from purchasing a firearm? 

The financial conditions there do seem a bit odd, but it's not an unusual condition for people who are deemed incompetent (usually by a court, but also by other authorities, I've yet to hear of it being done by a computer).  And there is a process for being declared incompetent, and it does involve due process. 

The rest of the statement from Richard's link that you left out of your italicized bit says: "due to “marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease”:". So if those are the reasons that someone is being deemed incompetent and not being allowed to own a firearm, I'm not seeing a huge problem.  Maybe we can just add some qualifiers on the financial bit, but overall it looks pretty reasonable - you do have the right of appeal as well, for additional due process. 

 
"The legal procedure for declaring a person incompetent consists of three steps: (1) a motion for a competency hearing, (2) a psychiatric or psychological evaluation, and (3) a competency hearing. Probate courts usually handle competency proceedings, which guarantee the allegedly incompetent person Due Process of Law."

 The determinations are not made by clerks at the SSA or by computer algorithms.
haresfur
I get around
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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 11:15pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Once again, a terrible law.  It prevented people who receive Social Security Disability from buying guns, simply because they receive SSD.  (...) As legitimate recipients of SSD, this directly affected me and my wife. (...)



There's a bit of weird disconnect here with Trump's statements that the FBI somehow should have stopped the shooter before it happened. Like what were they going to do with the tools at their disposal? They couldn't legally keep the gun out of his hands, they couldn't imprison him. I suppose they could have gone, busted down his door and shot him like that poor sod in California or wherever who was killed by police acting on an intentionally false tip.

I suppose you could look at it like any other government program like food stamps where the Republicans want to limit access. I mean no one has to take disability. If owning a gun is that important to you, opt out. Ok, I don't really believe that's a good solution, but there are plenty of other options. If you are in a high risk category, then you can have a double barrel shotgun and hunt ducks to your heart's content. Or a bolt action rifle for deer but not something for blowing away lots of kids. Or just keep anyone from having weapons of mass murder and then it's equitable.

There are several nice things about Australia's gun limits. If someone is running around with a gun illegally, then that means that they can be stopped proactively. If anyone can carry a gun into a burger king then you have no way to prevent gun crimes. Yes, the bikey gangs can get guns. But it's harder and they are harder to replace after you shoot someone and throw them into the ocean. So crims factor that into their decision on whether to blow someone away. Is it worth the trouble and expense to them? People with guns are far more worried about someone stealing them than they are about getting attacked. So they take care to lock them up and have a neighbour look after them when away for extended periods.
Steely_D
Angular banjoes sound good to me.
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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:39pm

 oldbuzzard wrote:
All of Benghazi belongs to Hillary. That will never change!
 


It's time to talk about what Trump can/can't do. It's way too obvious that every time someone points out Trump's incompetence - and remember his selling point was that he's not a politician nor one of the elites - someone pops up to say "what about "Hillary" or "what about Obama" and hope that folks get distracted. This is in place of a cogent argument that might sway people's minds.

islander
Thalassophile
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Location: Seattle
Gender: Male
Zodiac: Scorpio
Chinese Yr: Cock


Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:33pm

 kurtster wrote:

The very last line ...

it would pertain exclusively to the subset of Social Security disability recipients who have been deemed incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.

Deemed is the big one there.  How is deemed congruent with Due Process for openers ?  You have to prove yourself innocent to get removed from the list.

My wife is permanently and totally disabled because a motherfucking cellphone driving a car rear ended my wife's car immediately ending her contracting career and leaving her wife a 20lb weight limit, two back surgeries resulting in hardware and intolerable intermittent pain and serious permanent background pain.  She has not worked nor been able to work a single day since.  She also ended up with a PTSD diagnosis as a result of dealing with the injury and my cancer as she was to be the one to support us through my shit as I was done working, for obvious reasons. This happened as she on the way to the hospital to visit me during one of my early rounds of 24 hour week long rounds of chemo.  It took 5 years to settle this claim.  As a result of our attorney fucking us over and the 5 years of financial devastation before getting the settlement, she had to declare bankruptcy to end it all.  Bankruptcy would easily be a sign of being incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.  Right ???  And with my cancer and being married to someone who went bankrupt would make me equally incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.

Yeah, let a bureaucrat or a computer deem you to be something that you are not or have not been proven to be and then leave you the burden to prove otherwise.

Now you want to go re examine my statement you quoted for accuracy, eh ??????????????????????????????????

I'm done here on this one.  Gotta take a xanax in order to get to sleep now.

Goodnite ...
 
Has your wife been deemed incompetent?  Was she placed on the NCIS list?  Was she prevented from purchasing a firearm? 

The financial conditions there do seem a bit odd, but it's not an unusual condition for people who are deemed incompetent (usually by a court, but also by other authorities, I've yet to hear of it being done by a computer).  And there is a process for being declared incompetent, and it does involve due process. 

The rest of the statement from Richard's link that you left out of your italicized bit says: "due to “marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease”:". So if those are the reasons that someone is being deemed incompetent and not being allowed to own a firearm, I'm not seeing a huge problem.  Maybe we can just add some qualifiers on the financial bit, but overall it looks pretty reasonable - you do have the right of appeal as well, for additional due process. 
R_P
Ni dieu ni maître
R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:28pm

 kurtster wrote:

The very last line ...

it would pertain exclusively to the subset of Social Security disability recipients who have been deemed incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.

(... ) Now you want to go re examine my statement you quoted for accuracy, eh ??????????????????????????????????

I'm done here on this one.  Gotta take a xanax in order to get to sleep now.

Goodnite ...
Social Security recipients who have been deemed unable to manage their own affairs due to “marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease”
Maybe it does apply...
sdwright
Sink or Swim
sdwright Avatar

Location: underwater
Gender: Female
Zodiac: Taurus
Chinese Yr: Snake


Posted: Feb 19, 2018 - 9:26pm

 kurtster wrote:
{....}

Yeah, let a bureaucrat or a computer deem you to be something that you are not or have not been proven to be and then leave you the burden to prove otherwise.

Now you want to go re examine my statement you quoted for accuracy, eh ??????????????????????????????????

I'm done here on this one.  Gotta take a xanax in order to get to sleep now.

Goodnite ...
 
Kurt it appears to a new person that you've been here long enough to know that's how the majority of these buzzards and trolls operate around here... and they appear to be the majority, or at least just running things, including fellow listeners out of dodge.  It's just S.O.P. of some S.O.B. types.  They're damaged and miserable and nobody likes them in real life so they hide behind computers and take out their angst on others who had nothing to do with it.  And they've not  anything to say that's worth hearing...  But they get off on it when you let it piss you off.  Remember who you are.  Remember who they are.  


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