: Government Should Stop Its Own Violence First

Posted: May 8, 2013 - 5:09am

Informant: Islamic Compounds in America are Training for Jihad

I have heard from sources that live near the York SC compound that the FBI and local militia groups do watch their every move, I certainly hope so. Good to know the Muslims have their own compounds just like the Christian fanatics out West......great. {#Rolleyes}

Freekin religion, can't have anything nice anymore.

Oh and I heard a great question that I would like answered as well, one of the compounds is in the state of New York, do you think overlord Cuomo will enforce the tough state gun laws at these compounds? I bet the citizens of New York would be very interested in knowing the answer to that. {#Yes}

Posted: Apr 25, 2013 - 7:19pm

islander wrote:

I don't really want to cite chapter and verse either. My point was that it's an odd defense to say they are worse than us because they follow their crazy book more closely than we follow ours. Both books have a lot of crap in them and just because we ignore ours more doesn't make the crap contained any less vile. There are fundamentalist on both sides who see the work as literal and there are many who see it as a collection of parables and lose guidelines. If your defense of your religion is that you follow the rules less diligently than others, that is more of a criticism than a defense.

I'll get right to it. The Koran is way more than just a collection of stories by prophets. After all the stories come the rules. Endless rules of order and behaviour. But it doesn't just stop with ideals. It is about zero tolerance. Our way or the (you wished it was just the ) highway. The rules for living and society read more like a high school conduct and dress code with punishments based on first and second chances. There are very few mitigating circumstances alllowed. It contains hard and fast rules for social and criminal behavior. It get so specific it says which offenses gets how many lashes of the whip. 10 for this 20 for that.

The Bible is a lot of things, but it doesn't spend half of its content devoting itself to a criminal code, IIRC. And if I recall, Kosher Laws are very similar to Islamic in at least in regards to hygene and food. But that is where the similarity seems to end. Kosher Law has existed thousands of years before Islam. And I'm a total lightweight on the specifics as the are many here who are vastly more knowledgable about these things so feel free to correct me if needed. Christianity seems to have evolved farther away from its violent path than Islam. Organized Christianity has renounced many things and tried to make ammends as a whole. Can you tell me what the organized Islamic faith has renounced or ammended ? Renounced its death sentences for Infidels, homosexuals, raped women, pagans, cartoonists and the weak or infirm or the converts to Christianity ? Denounced the institutionalized homosexual pedophilia that preys on little boys ? Condemned clitoral mutilation, the beating of women and honour killing ? Remember how that was in the news just before Egypt went tits up ?

Yes, there is a section that says that believers in a one true God are allowed to co-exist peacefully and with respect. When the majority practiced that, everyone seemed to get along pretty well, at least in the Middle East. Northern Africa and Europe had different ways and different local problems. But the main point is that the respect for those that believe in a one true God is no longer held by the organized faith.

A Pope has not called anyone to arms in many a moon. How many nano seconds has it been since an Islamic cleric has ?

peace ...

Posted: Apr 25, 2013 - 10:32am

Red_Dragon wrote:

I seem to remember Christianity going through a phase (that lasted several hundred years) of pretty brutal behavior based on interpretations of their book. If there's a book, somebody's gonna interpret it to say that somebody else needs killin' in the name of our god.

Christianity has a 600 year head start. Imagine what was going on 600 years ago in Christianity (besides a festering conflict with Islam over southern Europe).

I hope it doesn't take 600 more years to reach the point where the conflict between secular society and Islamists revolves around school prayer and creches at city hall.

Posted: Apr 25, 2013 - 9:47am

Red_Dragon wrote:

I seem to remember Christianity going through a phase (that lasted several hundred years) of pretty brutal behavior based on interpretations of their book. If there's a book, somebody's gonna interpret it to say that somebody else needs killin' in the name of our god.

It's still going on. Think of the Civil Rights movement.

Posted: Apr 25, 2013 - 9:45am

islander wrote:

I don't really want to cite chapter and verse either. My point was that it's an odd defense to say they are worse than us because they follow their crazy book more closely than we follow ours. Both books have a lot of crap in them and just because we ignore ours more doesn't make the crap contained any less vile. There are fundamentalist on both sides who see the work as literal and there are many who see it as a collection of parables and lose guidelines. If your defense of your religion is that you follow the rules less diligently than others, that is more of a criticism than a defense.

I seem to remember Christianity going through a phase (that lasted several hundred years) of pretty brutal behavior based on interpretations of their book. If there's a book, somebody's gonna interpret it to say that somebody else needs killin' in the name of our god.

Posted: Apr 25, 2013 - 9:32am

islander wrote:

I don't really want to cite chapter and verse either. My point was that it's an odd defense to say they are worse than us because they follow their crazy book more closely than we follow ours. Both books have a lot of crap in them and just because we ignore ours more doesn't make the crap contained any less vile. There are fundamentalist on both sides who see the work as literal and there are many who see it as a collection of parables and lose guidelines. If your defense of your religion is that you follow the rules less diligently than others, that is more of a criticism than a defense.

One fairy tale is the same as the other. Any time you use dogma and doctrine to punish the "other" that is no longer religion, that is hatred in the name of.

Posted: Apr 25, 2013 - 9:28am

kurtster wrote:

Not going to get into a Biblical discussion other than to say you mentioned the Old Testament specifically. Most Xtians as you called them embrace the New Testament and refer to the OT as a stepping stone. Which do you wish to discuss ? You seem to be mixing things up a little. And as buzz mentioned, when was the last time someone was killed for not observing the Sabbath ?

If you want to start literally citing chapter and verse, I surrender immediately. I long ago forgot all that stuff. I just came away with the general message. The Big 10 and the Golden Rule. All else is just an illustration to support those worthy goals, again, IMHO.

I don't really want to cite chapter and verse either. My point was that it's an odd defense to say they are worse than us because they follow their crazy book more closely than we follow ours. Both books have a lot of crap in them and just because we ignore ours more doesn't make the crap contained any less vile. There are fundamentalist on both sides who see the work as literal and there are many who see it as a collection of parables and lose guidelines. If your defense of your religion is that you follow the rules less diligently than others, that is more of a criticism than a defense.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 9:35am

sirdroseph wrote:

Gotta throw this in here just cause; one of those times when no religion at all doesn't sound so bad does it? {#Whistle}

Imagine. Sorry, couldn't resist. Carry on.

John Lennon said it best.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 8:51am

kurtster wrote:

Gotta have a link, regardless.

The occasional posting of the entire text does not bother me much, as long as the font is not made bigger and colourized.

I was more concerned with the redundancy, and the duplication. :)

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 8:48am

winter wrote:

Small point, for those of us trying to keep up: perhaps linking to an article and posting the entire text of said article should be an "either/or" thing.

Gotta have a link, regardless.

The occasional posting of the entire text does not bother me much, as long as the font is not made bigger and colourized.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 8:46am

winter wrote:

Small point, for those of us trying to keep up: perhaps linking to an article and posting the entire text of said article should be an "either/or" thing.

got it

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 8:30am

miamizsun wrote:

: Government Should Stop Its Own Violence First

Small point, for those of us trying to keep up: perhaps linking to an article and posting the entire text of said article should be an "either/or" thing.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 8:26am

: Government Should Stop Its Own Violence First

by Sheldon RichmanApril 19, 2013

The tragedy in Boston shows that something is dreadfully wrong with how the U.S. government handles terrorism. If the government is willing to use aggressive force — including torture — to get its way, we should not be surprised when others are too. It’s time for fresh thinking. If the politicians would break out of their old mindset, they might yet succeed in preventing such violence without interfering with the rights of Americans or others. In fact, they would show new respect for freedom. How so?

Governments at all levels must renounce all aggressive violence against Americans and people in other countries. This means ending military and CIA intervention abroad. Drones have murdered, wounded, and – yes – terrorized many people in several countries. Military occupation has killed and abused countless others. At home, police departments brutalize Americans every day in the dishonestly named “war on drugs” and “war on guns.” All told, government’s business is mayhem.

Violence begets violence. It is time for the official violence to stop.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 8:23am

kurtster wrote:

I have no pat answer to that. Its just my diagnosis.

Yea I got nothin except Star Wars or even better........Roadhouse!!

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 8:05am

buzz wrote:

How do you do that peacefully.

I have no pat answer to that. Its just my diagnosis.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 8:03am

sirdroseph wrote:

Just a general statement, this is not Islam vs. Christianity. It is fundamentalism vs. rational thinking. Let's not get too sidetracked here.

Gotta take it a step further, its all about sex. One of the two primary drivers of life. The other is food.

Sharia is also a way of life that places more value on a chair than a woman. The Western World poses a direct threat to changing that.

This is the core cultural value that divides the two. We want to stop wife beating and they are willing to fight to the death in order to keep doing it.

Everything else is a result of this difference.

.
Edit: on further thought I will add that the purpose of the Burka is to hide the evidence.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 7:57am

kurtster wrote:

ok, I can agree with this for the most part.

Problem is, crazy does not follow any rules or patterns. The only effective way to deal with crazy is to isolate it and prevent it from reproducing. After that, I got nothing.

How do you do that peacefully.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 7:55am

islander wrote:

It's not about who's got the most crazy, it's about how we can minimize the impact of crazy on all sides. I don't care about anyone's religious affiliation, I'd prefer they don't have enough of a zealous following that building a bomb is seen as okay (unless they are removing tree stumps).

How do you minimize the impact of people who's deepest belief is that people that don't agree with them fully should be killed. Remember, these people believe it's required of them to kill little girls for wanting an education.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 7:54am

islander wrote:

It's not about who's got the most crazy, it's about how we can minimize the impact of crazy on all sides. I don't care about anyone's religious affiliation, I'd prefer they don't have enough of a zealous following that building a bomb is seen as okay (unless they are removing tree stumps).

ok, I can agree with this for the most part.

Problem is, crazy does not follow any rules or patterns. The only effective way to deal with crazy is to isolate it and prevent it from reproducing. After that, I got nothing.

Posted: Apr 23, 2013 - 7:52am

Gotta throw this in here just cause; one of those times when no religion at all doesn't sound so bad does it? {#Whistle}

Imagine. Sorry, couldn't resist. Carry on.