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Annoying stuff. not things that piss you off, just annoyi... - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 29, 2016 - 3:33pm
 
Back to the 70's - R_P - Jun 29, 2016 - 3:20pm
 
Regarding cats - DaveInVA - Jun 29, 2016 - 3:06pm
 
Words that should be put on the substitutes bench for a year - porphyrius - Jun 29, 2016 - 1:45pm
 
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Oh GOD, they're GAY! - R_P - Jun 29, 2016 - 1:36pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 29, 2016 - 12:48pm
 
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Photography Forum - Your Own Photos; Please Limit to 510 ... - lily34 - Jun 29, 2016 - 8:57am
 
Unusual News - Proclivities - Jun 29, 2016 - 8:49am
 
Back to the 90's - R_P - Jun 29, 2016 - 8:20am
 
Guns - Beaker - Jun 29, 2016 - 8:01am
 
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Things that make you go Hmmmm..... - Red_Dragon - Jun 29, 2016 - 6:36am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Jun 29, 2016 - 6:17am
 
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Trump - kcar - Jun 28, 2016 - 10:28pm
 
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Great Old Songs You Rarely Hear Anymore - rhahl - Jun 28, 2016 - 8:56pm
 
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Questions. - Antigone - Jun 28, 2016 - 5:57pm
 
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Breaking News - Red_Dragon - Jun 28, 2016 - 4:04pm
 
Obama's Second Term - steeler - Jun 28, 2016 - 3:31pm
 
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RP Daily Trivia Challenge - Steely_D - Jun 28, 2016 - 1:00pm
 
Those lovable acronym guys & gals - R_P - Jun 28, 2016 - 10:18am
 
Celebrity Face Recognition - Proclivities - Jun 28, 2016 - 10:11am
 
WORDS OF WISDOM - Proclivities - Jun 28, 2016 - 9:10am
 
Gardeners Corner - marko86 - Jun 28, 2016 - 8:37am
 
The Obituary Page - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 28, 2016 - 8:25am
 
Anti-War - sirdroseph - Jun 28, 2016 - 2:41am
 
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Bernie Sanders 2016? - #feelthebern - Rod - Jun 27, 2016 - 5:11pm
 
HALF A WORLD - oldviolin - Jun 27, 2016 - 4:14pm
 
music that makes you dance with big wavy gestures - oldviolin - Jun 27, 2016 - 3:48pm
 
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Photos you haven't taken of yourself - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jun 27, 2016 - 1:41pm
 
Chicken your way - Proclivities - Jun 27, 2016 - 12:27pm
 
Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Guns Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 416, 417, 418  Next
Post to this Topic
Beaker

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Posted: Jun 29, 2016 - 8:01am

Customer with concealed carry permit fatally shoots ax-wielding attacker at 7-Eleven

The customer who shot the suspect is described as a 60-year-old Seattle man who visits the store every morning to get coffee. His name was not immediately released.

Harry Callahan!
Ax control now! 
miamizsun

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Posted: Jun 29, 2016 - 5:52am

oh my (miami peruses the last week or so)

this forum seems to go off the rails driven by political thought (see rabid news cycle)

i see where a few have attempted to introduce principled thought
“You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.”

in the short term that could be true

the job of appealing to reason and logic (especially in the human action sciences) is certainly the challenge of our time

regards


sirdroseph
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Posted: Jun 29, 2016 - 5:09am

 westslope wrote:

Yes, the NRA is like so many other special interests:  the organization simply ignores the full, real costs of its agenda.

It is too bad that pro-gun activists will not see or understand how the rest of the world views events like the hand-gun driven destruction of this family.  

Because family is so important.... at least in rhetoric, it might be interesting to compile a list of American families where hand guns killed the majority of the nuclear family.

 




Happens in Chicago every day.
sirdroseph
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Posted: Jun 29, 2016 - 2:15am

C.I.A. Arms for Syrian Rebels Supplied Black Market, Officials Say


westslope

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Location: BC desert


Posted: Jun 27, 2016 - 8:50am

 aflanigan wrote:

It's anecdotal, obviously, but it seems to highlight what I see as an apparent truth that most vigorous 2nd amendment/NRA supporters don't want to acknowledge: That the opportunity to (and likelihood of) actually and successfully use a firearm in defense of one's life, property, or loved ones is substantially overshadowed by the likelihood and odds of one's firearm being used with tragic results such as this.

The movie mentality of the "hero with a gun" promoted by the NRA drowns out the reality of gun culture in the US, it seems. 

 
Yes, the NRA is like so many other special interests:  the organization simply ignores the full, real costs of its agenda.

It is too bad that pro-gun activists will not see or understand how the rest of the world views events like the hand-gun driven destruction of this family.  

Because family is so important.... at least in rhetoric, it might be interesting to compile a list of American families where hand guns killed the majority of the nuclear family.
aflanigan
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Posted: Jun 26, 2016 - 6:11pm

 porphyrius wrote:

I know - lets just close our eyes and wish it away.
 

Yes, that's my point. The gun lobby and its supporters just want to close their eyes and ignore the accidental shootings, the suicides, the killing of one child by another for revenge, and have us focus strictly on a myth of protection and safety.
 porphyrius wrote:

And we'll blow away anyone that tries to take that right away from you....
  
Or, you'll have your gun stolen from you by another armed 2nd amendment hero.  
Man Practicing Open Carry Robbed of Gun 

Perhaps you'd better bone up on Cheney's One Percent Doctrine? Preemptive second amendment action may be your only guarantee to hang on to your weapons.

{#Wink} 


porphyrius

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Posted: Jun 26, 2016 - 5:53pm

 aflanigan wrote:

It's anecdotal, obviously, but it seems to highlight what I see as an apparent truth that most vigorous 2nd amendment/NRA supporters don't want to acknowledge: That the opportunity to (and likelihood of) actually and successfully use a firearm in defense of one's life, property, or loved ones is substantially overshadowed by the likelihood and odds of one's firearm being used with tragic results such as this.

The movie mentality of the "hero with a gun" promoted by the NRA drowns out the reality of gun culture in the US, it seems. 

 
I know - lets just close our eyes and wish it away.

Americans have always been, and will always be, gun owners. If you want to spend your time trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube - well, that's your right...

And we'll blow away anyone that tries to take that right away from you....

Thank you, thank you very much...


{#High-five}


haresfur
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Posted: Jun 26, 2016 - 1:36pm

 aflanigan wrote:

It's anecdotal, obviously, but it seems to highlight what I see as an apparent truth that most vigorous 2nd amendment/NRA supporters don't want to acknowledge: That the opportunity to (and likelihood of) actually and successfully use a firearm in defense of one's life, property, or loved ones is substantially overshadowed by the likelihood and odds of one's firearm being used with tragic results such as this.

The movie mentality of the "hero with a gun" promoted by the NRA drowns out the reality of gun culture in the US, it seems. 

 
You are arguing statistics and that will never convince the anti- gun control people. As long as they, in their minds, are the responsible gun owner who will never get too angry, get too upset, get too depressed, flip out, make a mistake, get over powered, get their gun stolen, miss when trying to shoot that shoplifter, then their right to believe their Walter Mitty daydreams trumps your right to live in a safer environment.


Red_Dragon
y ddraig goch ddyry gychwyn
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Location: Rethuglican Jesusland


Posted: Jun 26, 2016 - 12:30pm

 westslope wrote:

Wow!  

Mental illness and guns....   nice. 

 
Woman was the very definition of a gun nut. Guns are the answer to all of life's problems. The NRA will say the only thing that could have prevented this is her daughters being armed. 'Cause you know: guns are the solution to all of life's problems. FREEDOM!!!


aflanigan
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Posted: Jun 26, 2016 - 12:30pm

 westslope wrote:

Wow!  

Mental illness and guns....   nice. 

 
It's anecdotal, obviously, but it seems to highlight what I see as an apparent truth that most vigorous 2nd amendment/NRA supporters don't want to acknowledge: That the opportunity to (and likelihood of) actually and successfully use a firearm in defense of one's life, property, or loved ones is substantially overshadowed by the likelihood and odds of one's firearm being used with tragic results such as this.

The movie mentality of the "hero with a gun" promoted by the NRA drowns out the reality of gun culture in the US, it seems. 
westslope

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Location: BC desert


Posted: Jun 26, 2016 - 11:56am

 R_P wrote:
“It would be horribly tragic if my ability to protect myself or my family were to be taken away,” she wrote in March, “but that’s exactly what Democrats are determined to do by banning semi-automatic handguns.”


 
Wow!  

Mental illness and guns....   nice. 
R_P
Ni dieu ni maître
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Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 4:48pm

“It would be horribly tragic if my ability to protect myself or my family were to be taken away,” she wrote in March, “but that’s exactly what Democrats are determined to do by banning semi-automatic handguns.”

DaveInVA
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Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 8:14am

If the Public Shouldn’t Have Them, Why Does the IRS Need AR-15s?


islander
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Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 7:56am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

It doesn't seem all that difficult to implement a good system. I'm with Lazy on at least one aspect of adding laws just to see what happens: If it turns out to not be working, if we say tomorrow the no-fly list is ineffective so we're going to discontinue it, well that just means everyone who's on it will immediately try to fly just because*. And there are people on that list who should be on a damn list.

*When I was in college, our radio station had a rule against dogs in the studio.
The campus also had a rule against dogs in the building.
I got rid of the rule saying no dogs in the studio because it was superfluous and I wanted the station manual to be about radio.
Every fucking DJ with a dog immediately brought their dog to the studio. 

 
Someone was listening: http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/25/us/hawaii-gun-owner-database/index.html I suppose now it's off to the lawyers and such.
Lazy8
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Posted: Jun 24, 2016 - 10:36am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
that was just the first link among many.
 
Note that I'm not necessarily advocating for anything except change. Change in status quo, and now change in our approach to effecting change.

Well, that's different!
ScottFromWyoming
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Posted: Jun 24, 2016 - 10:17am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
This says a lot more about the Violence Policy Center than it does about that bogeyman the NRA.

It seems like the NRA is advocating for roughly the kind of system you are, albeit at the federal level rather than local, and petition-based rather than automatic. In fact it's stricter than what you are advocating for.

 
that was just the first link among many.
 
Note that I'm not necessarily advocating for anything except change. Change in status quo, and now change in our approach to effecting change.
Lazy8
human
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Posted: Jun 24, 2016 - 9:55am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
This says a lot more about the Violence Policy Center than it does about that bogeyman the NRA.

It seems like the NRA is advocating for roughly the kind of system you are, albeit at the federal level rather than local, and petition-based rather than automatic. In fact it's stricter than what you are advocating for.
westslope

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Location: BC desert


Posted: Jun 24, 2016 - 7:40am

 Lazy8 wrote:
......

I once took the option of paying an off-duty cop for "traffic school", an alternative punishment scheme in California traffic law. He actually taught us a few things (which apparently was strictly optional under this system, whose main intent seemed to be providing off-duty cops an avenue for moonlighting) and one of them was this:

He held up a copy of the California Vehicle Code, two VERY thick volumes, about eight inches of paper all together. "If I need an excuse to get to know you, trust me, it's in there."

No one has memorized the California Vehicle Code. I doubt anyone could, even as a stunt—and it is minuscule compared to the federal criminal code. No one even knows how many punishable offenses are listed in it; estimates are upwards of 30,000. And more arrive every day.

......

 
The same probably applies to most western countries.  

Yet regular citizens negotiate public transit and private automobiles daily without encountering law enforcement officials while others constantly run into police officers as they blithely violate one traffic law after another.

Maybe education of common law-breaking citizens is required?  Call it: Ten steps to avoid being pulled over by law enforcement.    Perhaps get some experienced high-value criminals to teach the course?  These individuals avoid the police by making sure that everything is in order so they do not raise any suspicion.  

Stupidity, laziness and arrogance are not crimes in of themselves.  But they are often at the root of depraved indifference to fellow citizens.

Otherwise, I agree Lazy8 that people should not go to jail for anti-Christian lifestyle sins.   It would be nice to believe that  the movement to legalize marijuana will  usher in more changes in this direction but I would not count on it.


Lazy8
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Posted: Jun 24, 2016 - 6:56am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
No, I don't. That's exactly what it assumes.

Then I need you to define some terms and point it out.

What do you mean by "behave themselves"?

What part of punishing people only for violating the rights of others assumes that no one will violate the rights of others?
Red_Dragon
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Posted: Jun 24, 2016 - 4:24am

 Lazy8 wrote:
Red_Dragon wrote:
You also need government permission to transport a firearm on that same government property. Fair enough?

No, not. And congress actually addressed this with respect to states and municipalities harassing people transporting firearms. Again, the default isn't to make people doing no harm to beg permission, the default is to make government justify a restriction.

Why have laws against anything? Of course criminals ignore them - that's why they're called criminals.

To protect our rights. We write laws to spell out what behavior is forbidden and what the punishment is for engaging in it. Otherwise we either have to protect our rights ourselves (which only works if you can afford it) or subject ourselves to the arbitrary rule of despots, who decide on the spot what is forbidden and for whom, and what penalty they will extract for it.

Libertarian philosophy assumes everyone will behave themselves. I think we all know that isn't likely to happen in our lifetimes. Some people do bad things; as long as that's the case we need laws to first give them pause and then to punish them if they choose to do the bad thing anyway. The best we can hope for in the meantime is to try to agree on how best to govern a society composed of imperfect people.

*assumes villain status in solidarity with SFW*

I think even you recognize this is false so I'm not going to bother with rebutting it.

And SFW pulls it off better.

 
No, I don't. That's exactly what it assumes.
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