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haresfur
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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 24, 2016 - 8:31pm

This may be the best way to measure gun violence in America

Praise the lord for lousy aim

Lazy8
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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2016 - 9:22am

sirdroseph wrote:
This is the site I got this from, I was thinking same thing but you can check out more closely and verify if you like:

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/most-heavily-armed-states-in-america/?ftag=ACQ812ebde


Here is a look at per capita weapons data, based on the ATF's National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record, and 2013 data from the U.S. Census.

While the ATF's National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record is the only accessible list of its kind, it is not all-inclusive. NFA firearms only include the categories regulated by The National Firearms Act of 1934: machine guns, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, suppressors, destructive devices like bombs and grenades, concealable devices with the ability to discharge a shot through the energy of an explosive, and any firearm with a bore over half an inch that has not been determined to have a legitimate sporting use.


So yeah: no. They're counting NFA guns, and those are a tiny fraction of the weapons in the US. They don't go into how they integrated census data into their calculations (and census data is a weak tool here) so it's hard to tell what influence this had.

The individual states shown indicate some of the problems with the data; they are using registration lists to count guns. Montana is shown tied with Connecticut at 11.3/1,000 residents. for chrissake; 11,461 "registered guns" among just over a million residents. Montana doesn't register guns of any kind. There might be that many concealed carry permit holders, but as a stand-in for firearms ownership that number is utter crap—there were 23,366 NICS checks (background checks for firearms purchases) in Montana in the first two months of 2016.
haresfur
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Location: The Golden Triangle
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Posted: Mar 28, 2016 - 8:05am

 sirdroseph wrote:

It was actually DC, the list was by state.  Those are legal guns as well, very surprising. It was calculated by population; number of guns per person.

 
They probably include the FBI and Secret Service. 
Red_Dragon
y ddraig goch ddyry gychwyn
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Location: Rethuglican Jesusland


Posted: Mar 28, 2016 - 7:37am

Saw a guy with a semi-auto pistol on his hip in the liquor store Friday. Made me nervous. Was he a good guy with a gun or a homicidal maniac? How do we know? I'm actually surprised at how few I've seen so far.
sirdroseph
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Posted: Mar 28, 2016 - 7:29am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 


Calling BS on this. There is no reliable way to count guns in places they aren't registered, which is most of the country. DC makes legally owning a firearm about as difficult as possible, so until I see the math I don't believe a word of it.

 
This is the site I got this from, I was thinking same thing but you can check out more closely and verify if you like:

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/most-heavily-armed-states-in-america/?ftag=ACQ812ebde


Lazy8
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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2016 - 7:21am

 sirdroseph wrote:
This is interesting and unexpected, did you know that Washington D.C. has the second highest number of legal guns per person in the country second only to Wyoming ?{#Eek} Pretty sure that total including illegal, it is Chicago and then everyone else, but we are talking about legal. 

Calling BS on this. There is no reliable way to count guns in places they aren't registered, which is most of the country. DC makes legally owning a firearm about as difficult as possible, so until I see the math I don't believe a word of it.
sirdroseph
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Posted: Mar 28, 2016 - 6:26am

 steeler wrote:
 

Was that for the greater metropolitan D.C. area, which would include parts of Virginia and Maryland?  Or just for the District?

 

 

 



 
It was actually DC, the list was by state.  Those are legal guns as well, very surprising. It was calculated by population; number of guns per person.


steeler
About three bricks shy of a load
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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 28, 2016 - 6:22am

 sirdroseph wrote:
This is interesting and unexpected, did you know that Washington D.C. has the second highest number of legal guns per person in the country second only to Wyoming ?{#Eek} Pretty sure that total including illegal, it is Chicago and then everyone else, but we are talking about legal.

  

Was that for the greater metropolitan D.C. area, which would include parts of Virginia and Maryland?  Or just for the District?

 

 

 


sirdroseph
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Posted: Mar 28, 2016 - 4:58am

This is interesting and unexpected, did you know that Washington D.C. has the second highest number of legal guns per person in the country second only to Wyoming ?{#Eek} Pretty sure that total including illegal, it is Chicago and then everyone else, but we are talking about legal.
westslope

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Location: BC desert


Posted: Mar 18, 2016 - 1:35pm

Thanks for sharing Red_Dragon, Scott and others.  Interesting experiences.

Some personal nuances:

- my politics is non-violent (no matter how hard that is to do), but...

- I wouldn't hesitate to kill if I or those under my charge are threatened and that can be done with a short skinning blade, a ball point pen, certain holds and sharp blows, etc. , etc.  Carrying firearms is strategically risky.   On the other hand....

- there is nothing wrong with running (done that on a couple of occasions), or even better yet....

- talking your way out .  Done that lots.

There is an art to de-escalating a situation.  It requires respect, it requires treating others with dignity, it often requires directly addressing the security concerns of others.

Sometimes, it helps to implicitly threaten deadly violence but that has to be done very, very carefully and usually non-verbally.  Most people are not up for the task of this kind of deterrence.  One is either a fearless warrior with the right instincts or not.  

I have often wondered if adolescents should be taught these kinds of street smarts and the art of de-escalating a potentially dangerous, violent situation.  Most decent, civil parents do not see the requirement and if anything would likely oppose that kind of education.

 


buddy

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Posted: Mar 18, 2016 - 7:41am

 Red_Dragon wrote:

Until just a few years ago I owned firearms my entire adult life. My father started me shooting at nine or ten. Guns were just something that were always a part of my life. Before it was legal here, I carried for years. Back then, it was like a traffic ticket: you had a pistol in one pocket and $50 in the other to pay the fine. After the CCW law passed, it became a felony to carry without the license. So I got a license. It rankled, but I did it.

I hunted, I firmly believed that the second amendment secured my "right" to keep and bare arms. I belonged to the fucking John Birch Society for fuck's sake. I disliked the NRA because I felt they weren't doing enough. I believed that the federal government had overstepped its bounds and that armed insurrection was perfectly justifiable. I voted for Reagan - twice. To be more conservative than me, you'd have had to work very hard. I carried for decades and not once did I find myself in a situation in which I even thought about drawing my weapon. That said, I consider myself to have been a very introspective proponent of the use of force. I always understood that if the gun comes out, someone dies. I took that responsibility very, very seriously and spent a lot of time thinking about it - and training for that moment. Back then, I had reached a point at which I was perfectly willing to take another's life under the right circumstances, and deal with the consequences after the fact. I am extremely thankful that set of circumstances never occurred.

At some point in my forties I experienced what I will call an awakening, for lack of a better word. After a lot of soul searching and sober consideration I decided to "be the change I want to see in the world." Part of that change was a sincere and heartfelt commitment to non-violence. I took the decision to disarm myself completely. I've not regretted this decision even once. If we are to evolve as a species, we must get past violence in all its forms. Call me a dreamer, a fool, or what you will. I choose to believe that we can become better than we are. For if we cannot, I also believe that we are doomed.

My 2 cents.

 
Having a spiritual awakening is an amazing thing.  You're a good man, Charlie Brown.

{#Hug} 
oldviolin
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Posted: Mar 17, 2016 - 8:14pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:

Working on it.

 
We're all working on it, pal.{#Good-vibes}{#War}{#Wink}


oldviolin
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Posted: Mar 16, 2016 - 11:01am

 sirdroseph wrote:

Most people I know that collect firearms are much like those that collect stamps, boats and cars.  They just like em.  And they don't strike me as particularly fearful, quite the opposite.  Personally the only thing I fear is prison, seems like there are an awful lots of ways that you can end up there.

The answer is choice. Again, it's not about guns. It's about the future. How irrelevant can we make violent ambitions?  That's what kills people.

Some people live a life sentence in the prison of their own closed minds.

Hey, I'm an idealist. So shoot me.{#Daisy}


Red_Dragon
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Location: Rethuglican Jesusland


Posted: Mar 16, 2016 - 10:52am

 oldviolin wrote:

Ah. Wonderful. Now learn how to forgive yourself for being a flawed human being just like every other. Then you'll feel that anger subside at the lack of perfection in yourself and others. Love seeps in and forces the perceived lack of power and control out. Emotions at that point become your most powerful means to effect change rather than a useless and destructive crutch.

 
Working on it.
oldviolin
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Posted: Mar 16, 2016 - 10:45am

 Red_Dragon wrote:

Yes. Yes. Much less.

 
Ah. Wonderful. Now learn how to forgive yourself for being a flawed human being just like every other. Then you'll feel that anger subside at the lack of perfection in yourself and others. Love seeps in and forces the perceived lack of power and control out. Emotions at that point become your most powerful means to effect change rather than a useless and destructive crutch.
sirdroseph
Endeavor to Perservere
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Location: Yes
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Zodiac: Sagittarius
Chinese Yr: Dragon


Posted: Mar 16, 2016 - 10:40am

 oldviolin wrote:

Is that why people collect or amass firearms? Is that why you did? If so, are you less fearful now or more?

 
Most people I know that collect firearms are much like those that collect stamps, boats and cars.  They just like em.  And they don't strike me as particularly fearful, quite the opposite.  Personally the only thing I fear is prison, seems like there are an awful lots of ways that you can end up there.


Red_Dragon
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Location: Rethuglican Jesusland


Posted: Mar 16, 2016 - 10:37am

 oldviolin wrote:

Is that why people collect or amass firearms. Is that why you did? If so, are you less fearful now or more?

 
Yes. Yes. Much less.
oldviolin
ab origine
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Location: esse quam videri
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Posted: Mar 16, 2016 - 10:32am

 Red_Dragon wrote:

fear

 
Is that why people collect or amass firearms? Is that why you did? If so, are you less fearful now or more?


Lazy8
human
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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 16, 2016 - 10:31am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
Until just a few years ago I owned firearms my entire adult life. My father started me shooting at nine or ten. Guns were just something that were always a part of my life. Before it was legal here, I carried for years. Back then, it was like a traffic ticket: you had a pistol in one pocket and $50 in the other to pay the fine. After the CCW law passed, it became a felony to carry without the license. So I got a license. It rankled, but I did it.

I hunted, I firmly believed that the second amendment secured my "right" to keep and bare arms. I belonged to the fucking John Birch Society for fuck's sake. I disliked the NRA because I felt they weren't doing enough. I believed that the federal government had overstepped its bounds and that armed insurrection was perfectly justifiable. I voted for Reagan - twice. To be more conservative than me, you'd have had to work very hard. I carried for decades and not once did I find myself in a situation in which I even thought about drawing my weapon. That said, I consider myself to have been a very introspective proponent of the use of force. I always understood that if the gun comes out, someone dies. I took that responsibility very, very seriously and spent a lot of time thinking about it - and training for that moment. Back then, I had reached a point at which I was perfectly willing to take another's life under the right circumstances, and deal with the consequences after the fact. I am extremely thankful that set of circumstances never occurred.

At some point in my forties I experienced what I will call an awakening, for lack of a better word. After a lot of soul searching and sober consideration I decided to "be the change I want to see in the world." Part of that change was a sincere and heartfelt commitment to non-violence. I took the decision to disarm myself completely. I've not regretted this decision even once. If we are to evolve as a species, we must get past violence in all its forms. Call me a dreamer, a fool, or what you will. I choose to believe that we can become better than we are. For if we cannot, I also believe that we are doomed.

My 2 cents.

None of which I have a problem with. Where this becomes a conflict is "I had a change of feels, so you have to go to prison."

You want change? Be that change. You want me to change? Convince me.

And threatening me with prison won't convince me.
Red_Dragon
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Location: Rethuglican Jesusland


Posted: Mar 16, 2016 - 10:24am

 oldviolin wrote:

Well wait a minute. You're one who always pointed out that it wasn't the device, it was the possessor. That's where I'm coming from. Manufacture all the potentially destructive devices you want. If there is no market; i/e humans with attitudes bent on violence and destruction, then the ubiquity of guns and bombs goes by the wayside. No one seeks to destroy and kill with a farm tractor or a pneumatic nailer or a box fan, but each of those in the hands of a maniac can do a lot of damage. Ok the box fan is a stretch but you get my point. That being said, where does the diet nourishing the worst parts of human behavior originate? The intelligence? The insecurity? The lusts? The anatomy? Where? Religion? Humanism?
Maybe the sum of desires to possess. The material world takes no prisoners while the spirit world wastes no guides.

It takes a hell of a lot of courage to stand unarmed in the face of all things dead or dying and rail against violence in thought, much less action. People are fearful. It's a bad recipe.
Now the up side. It doesn't have to be that way. The river faith flows unyielding to human pride. True love is indestructible. Nothing else comes close.



 
fear
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