RP Listener Forum - Radio Paradise

Posted: Jul 19, 2012 - 1:43pm

Live Broadcast TV, meet the Internet. Finally.

NYC only at this point, but who knows...

Posted: Jul 19, 2012 - 7:56am

1944 Seagram's ad featuring a Facsimile Television. I'm not sure if he's drinking whisky when he wakes up though.

Curious choices of which words to capitalize and which one not to.

Posted: Jul 29, 2006 - 12:35am

Servo wrote:

I'm just frustrated by the "one step forward, three steps back" broadband progress here. A local ISP was one of the world's first DSL providers in the early '90s, but it was nearly 2000 before I could actually order a DSL line for myself. Now SBC has made it all but impossible to get unfettered DSL. I'm paying $200/mo. for a DSL line with less bandwidth than my cable modem has for $50/mo. But that's the only way I can get multiple, static IP addresses, w/o any blocked ports. And how many people have a $1000/mo. communications budget?

Perhaps that is the way that the Corporate Master want it??

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 6:34pm

islander wrote:

The binary is windows, but the source is there, so compile away.

It's is a black space reader. But it *VERY* tunable. down to the pixel level or frame level. You can determing the ammount and level of black that sets the trigger, and you can run it in 'manual' mode and select if you want to delete the triggered portions of the program. I've been able to run it in auto mode fine w/ some minor tweaks.

I'm not very fluent in C++, but I'll give it a look-see. There's also the matter of AVI vs. the MPEG2 streams that the TiVo uses. That could take some doing. Do you know offhand how it handles the "hidden" lines, VITS, VIRS etc.?

I generally agree. I'm obviosly not the target demographic either. I still think that the market itself needs to shift and stop trying to criminalize the users of their products and figure out how to let us pay w/o gouging us.

Yep! You can attract more flies with honey rather than vinegar. I know that if any of the music download services ever got real and offered full-quality PCM singles, I'd spend mega-money there. And although I'm not big on movies, I'd pay to be able to download the latest episodes (even more for ones that I missed) of my regular TV shows. Just as long as I can get what I want Ã la carte.

And you can apply that directly to the forehead.

Actually I can't. Money got tight this spring, and I sold my forehead as advertising space.

Some good points, but I still think it comes down to convienence. You are right about hte entrenched powers trying to lock up the markets. But there is a growing number of people who are building alternative delivery methods (I'm involved w/ a municipal broadband project that is trudging along). Once some of these are in place I think the barriers toentry wil be lower, and there will be more people willing to provide services and content.

I agree that alternative delivery methods are the key to success. But I still believe in the power of the instant gratification market!

I'd like to learn more about the broadband project that you're involved with. Here in Chicago, the mayor has pledged to build a city-wide "low-cost or free" 802.11 municipal WISP. But I get the feeling that a grass-roots project would make it into production before anybody moves on the mayor's "plan". Speaking of grass-roots, I hear that Seattle's community colocation project is doing well. Do you know anything about that stuff?

The dinosaurs will fight it all the way, but eventually people will come around. Everyone that sees my media setup wants to know more. They love RP on the stereo and a whole que of tv w/o commercials just waiting to be watched when I feel like it. Weather, traffic, the latest youtube item, it's all just data, and it will be available to any data device.

I hear ya! Never underestimate the power of leadership by example. You might not be able to measure the impact on a large scale, but IME quite a few people have invested five-digit dollars in stereo equipment after hearing just how good music can sound (on my stereo). And that's just my good friends who I visit often. Who knows how many others who I don't know as well followed suit?

I'm just frustrated by the "one step forward, three steps back" broadband progress here. A local ISP was one of the world's first DSL providers in the early '90s, but it was nearly 2000 before I could actually order a DSL line for myself. Now SBC has made it all but impossible to get unfettered DSL. I'm paying $200/mo. for a DSL line with less bandwidth than my cable modem has for $50/mo. But that's the only way I can get multiple, static IP addresses, w/o any blocked ports. And how many people have a $1000/mo. communications budget?

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 5:42pm

Servo wrote:

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately it's a Windows-centric program that can't help a TiVo much.

From what I read about it, it uses the "fade to black" method to guess when a commercial starts. I've tried that before, but discovered that a lot of what I record has enough black frames to make that method too risky. Also, maybe because I live in the #3 TV market in the US (meaning rate cards with BIG numbers), commercial breaks are usually quick cuts rather than "dips" (to black). I'm sure that this is done to foil commercial-skippers.

The binary is windows, but the source is there, so compile away.

It's is a black space reader. But it *VERY* tunable. down to the pixel level or frame level. You can determing the ammount and level of black that sets the trigger, and you can run it in 'manual' mode and select if you want to delete the triggered portions of the program. I've been able to run it in auto mode fine w/ some minor tweaks.

Servo wrote:

Actually I was talking about the far more generalized market forces that lead honest people to civil disobedience in the face of oppressive monopolies and hegemonies. I was also talking about my own policy against marketeering. While statistics show that many people can be annoyed into buying a product, it's the exact opposite for me. Abusive marketing practices (a.k.a. marketeering) tend to lead me away from that product. But in the few cases where I have a real need for the marketeered product, rather than give in and reward bad behavior, I'll turn to "it fell off a truck" sources. That way I can stay true to my policy without making any sacrifices myself.

I generally agree. I'm obviosly not the target demographic either. I still think that the market itself needs to shift and stop trying to criminalize the users of their products and figure out how to let us pay w/o gouging us.

And you can apply that directly to the forehead.

Servo wrote:

The ILECs and cable companies, many of which are one and the same, spend serious PAC money to make sure that nothing replaces the copper technology that they know and are relatively unafraid of. Fiber scares them. The only way that they'll allow fiber to the home is with a gun to their heads, most likely after the trigger has been pulled!

.

Some good points, but I still think it comes down to convienence. You are right about hte entrenched powers trying to lock up the markets. But there is a growing number of people who are building alternative delivery methods (I'm involved w/ a municipal broadband project that is trudging along). Once some of these are in place I think the barriers toentry wil be lower, and there will be more people willing to provide services and content.

The dinosaurs will fight it all the way, but eventually people will come around. Everyone that sees my media setup wants to know more. They love RP on the stereo and a whole que of tv w/o commercials just waiting to be watched when I feel like it. Weather, traffic, the latest youtube item, it's all just data, and it will be available to any data device.

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 3:35pm

huebdoo wrote:

So With a DVR or a TIVO and such you can jump ahead versus avoiding commercials... just as I was stating (my mistake wasnt mentioning DVR as a whole)

Still not broad enough. Even with the lowly VCR, the viewer must record everything, including commercial breaks. And the same old "fast-forward into the show, then back up to catch what you overshot" technique that is as old as the first VCR with a remote is still the most efficient way to avoid commercials. So far only the human brain has the power to reliably differentiate between program content and advertising.

Internet and TV will merge ... personalized marketing will take over and marketers will gain a huge perspective on how to market to qualified viewers as ever before.

The Information Age is a double-edged sword. Yes, it allows you to bombard us with more and more unsolicited come-ons. But OTOH the very same technology is informing us about how much data about us is being collected and traded. It's also informing us of what a huge impact that such data has on our lives, and how no effort is made to verify the accuracy of such data. So we know that giving up personal data can ruin our lives, literally. Knowledge like that is provoking some stiff resistance from clueful people. And thanks to technologies like the Internet, the word is spreading fast.

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 3:15pm

islander wrote:

cbreak (http://devices.natetrue.com/cbreak/) works pretty good for eliminating the commercials from recorded streams.

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately it's a Windows-centric program that can't help a TiVo much.

From what I read about it, it uses the "fade to black" method to guess when a commercial starts. I've tried that before, but discovered that a lot of what I record has enough black frames to make that method too risky. Also, maybe because I live in the #3 TV market in the US (meaning rate cards with BIG numbers), commercial breaks are usually quick cuts rather than "dips" (to black). I'm sure that this is done to foil commercial-skippers.

While 'piracy' is wrong, stealing is the wrong term. What you are talking about is copyright infringment.

Actually I was talking about the far more generalized market forces that lead honest people to civil disobedience in the face of oppressive monopolies and hegemonies. I was also talking about my own policy against marketeering. While statistics show that many people can be annoyed into buying a product, it's the exact opposite for me. Abusive marketing practices (a.k.a. marketeering) tend to lead me away from that product. But in the few cases where I have a real need for the marketeered product, rather than give in and reward bad behavior, I'll turn to "it fell off a truck" sources. That way I can stay true to my policy without making any sacrifices myself.

But it comes about because of a market overvaluing it's product, and a risk/reward ratio that encourages people to skirt the rules.

My point exactly.

There is obviously a demand. And people who are downloading movies on $60/month broadband connections to $2K computers to watch on their $5K entertainment systems aren't doing it to avoid the $5 blockbuster fee. The media distribution model is not what the market desires. Make what the customer wants and make it convienent and they will pay you for it, see: iTunes.

You're making a lot of assumptions there. I doubt that the people who can actually afford such luxuries have the time or know-how to get into warez.

OTOH a kid with a computer (that Mom and Dad paid for), relatively little disposable income and plenty of free time is far more likely to put up with the long download times (via an Internet connection paid for by Mom and Dad), less than DVD quality and possibly a lot of searching to see a movie. And the kid isn't going to have a $5 grand home entertainment system, he/she has a computer, and not necessarily a $2 grand model either. For the Gen-Y crowd, the computer is their entertainment center. They'll watch the movie on their computer screen. And if they need to, they'll use earphones, so if a parent pops in, it will look like they're studying.

My neighborhood Blockbuster is busy day and night. Even long after they're closed I'll see people using the return slot. That is convenience for my neighbors.

I have little doubt that a certain percentage of movie viewers are willing to spend the extra money for the convenience. I just think they'll be paying the established cable monopolies for pay-per-view, not using their cable modems to download (and wait for) the warez. Instant gratification is at least as important as convenience for that demographic.

America has become a very reactionary society. Every businessperson I know thinks that Fax is the state of the art in moving documents. People in suits who are younger than I have called me up, baffled by the PDF and JPEG attachments that I've sent them. They don't have a clue as to what they are. It doesn't even occur to them that e-mail can be used to transport anything but Word and Excel files, or to send short messages directly via e-mail without taking a half-hour to make it into a Word document. I'm not exaggerating here!

The ILECs and cable companies, many of which are one and the same, spend serious PAC money to make sure that nothing replaces the copper technology that they know and are relatively unafraid of. Fiber scares them. The only way that they'll allow fiber to the home is with a gun to their heads, most likely after the trigger has been pulled!

So the situation is one of minimal supply and minimal demand, and "business-only" prices for anything that could deliver enough bandwidth to replace plain old TV service. Gen-Y will want this kind of technology when their turn comes, but by then America will be too poor to afford any such initiative. They'll be lucky to just have a job, which will give them just enough for the bare necessities, the rest going to paying the interest on the interest on the Federal budget deficit.

I'll be dead and buried before anybody gets this dinosaur to move.

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 2:32pm

for those who are interested ... a good article on DVR people and thier time using various media elements

(click here)

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 1:04pm

Servo wrote:

I forgot, my setup is a little different than most. I have two TiVos, so I ordered the remote with a switch that allows me to address each one separately. Also, since they're running Linux and use Tcl to do most everything, I've customized them to my liking.

The TiVo remote actually has a "go back 30 seconds" button. I have never found the need to do that, so mine goes forward instead. The aftermarket remote also has a few extra buttons that are handy. But the P-I-P button is useless for me. I'm trying to get it to control my video switcher.

So With a DVR or a TIVO and such you can jump ahead versus avoiding commercials... just as I was stating (my mistake wasnt mentioning DVR as a whole)

Internet and TV will merge ... personalized marketing will take over and marketers will gain a huge perspective on how to market to qualified viewers as ever before.

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 12:54pm

coding_to_music wrote:

My TiVo has a fast forward button, I thought that RePlay TV had the 30 second jump button...

Fast Forward is good enough for me...

I forgot, my setup is a little different than most. I have two TiVos, so I ordered the remote with a switch that allows me to address each one separately. Also, since they're running Linux and use Tcl to do most everything, I've customized them to my liking.

The TiVo remote actually has a "go back 30 seconds" button. I have never found the need to do that, so mine goes forward instead. The aftermarket remote also has a few extra buttons that are handy. But the P-I-P button is useless for me. I'm trying to get it to control my video switcher.

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 12:47pm

coding_to_music wrote:

My TiVo has a fast forward button, I thought that RePlay TV had the 30 second jump button...

Fast Forward is good enough for me...

DVR is the greatest invention since TV. I haven't watched a commericial that I didn't want to watch for about the last 2 years. Advertisers must hate my type, I'm not influenced to buy things I see on TV.

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 12:35pm

Servo wrote:

No, a TiVo does not remove any commercials. The TiVo remote features a "jump ahead 30 seconds" button that has enraged the marketeers. Many VCRs also have such a function, but for some reason that's OK.

The reality is that it's virtually impossible to automatically remove TV commercials reliably. And the TiVo is far from the first commercial avoidance device. For decades, "going to the fridge", changing channels (which begat "don't touch that dial"), muting and/or just ignoring live TV commercials has been a way of life. When the VCR allowed time-shifting one's favorite TV shows, the practice of "zipping" past commercials soon followed. And it continues with DVRs.

No amount of technology will alter the course of basic market laws. If you get too greedy, I'll simply steal it from you.

cbreak (http://devices.natetrue.com/cbreak/) works pretty good for eliminating the commercials from recorded streams.

While 'piracy' is wrong, stealing is the wrong term. What you are talking about is copyright infringment. But it comes about because of a market overvaluing it's product, and a risk/reward ratio that encourages people to skirt the rules.

There is obviously a demand. And people who are downloading movies on $60/month broadband connections to $2K computers to watch on their $5K entertainment systems aren't doing it to avoid the $5 blockbuster fee. The media distribution model is not what the market desires. Make what the customer wants and make it convienent and they will pay you for it, see: iTunes.

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 11:45am

Servo wrote:

No, a TiVo does not remove any commercials. The TiVo remote features a "jump ahead 30 seconds" button that has enraged the marketeers. Many VCRs also have such a function, but for some reason that's OK.

My TiVo has a fast forward button, I thought that RePlay TV had the 30 second jump button...

Fast Forward is good enough for me...

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 11:43am

huebdoo wrote:

TIVO for example will remove all commercials, so ...

No, a TiVo does not remove any commercials. The TiVo remote features a "jump ahead 30 seconds" button that has enraged the marketeers. Many VCRs also have such a function, but for some reason that's OK.

The reality is that it's virtually impossible to automatically remove TV commercials reliably. And the TiVo is far from the first commercial avoidance device. For decades, "going to the fridge", changing channels (which begat "don't touch that dial"), muting and/or just ignoring live TV commercials has been a way of life. When the VCR allowed time-shifting one's favorite TV shows, the practice of "zipping" past commercials soon followed. And it continues with DVRs.

Every underhanded dirty trick in the book has been tried in combatting this long-standing practice. Nothing worked until some genius got the idea to actually make commercials that people want to watch. This radical new concept has revolutionized advertising. In fact, the Superbowl has become a media event for commercial watching, just as much as it is for football.

The amount of coordination necessary to transform product placement into point-and-click shopping is prohibitively expensive at this time. And with an increasing number of people on the lookout for anything that might aid identity theft, or invade one's privacy, the odds are against this kind of thing happening for a long time.

The fact of the matter is that as more and more consumers are having to pay for entertainment like television as Cable and the Internet displace direct broadcast, their tolerance of what was once accepted as a reasonable burden to bear for free TV is wearing thin.

I'm an ex-TV engineer, so it's worth $35/mo. to me for basic cable, so I get a decent picture. After years of working on the supply-side, it has become a knee-jerk reaction to respond to signal anomalies, so it's a small price to pay for a signal that doesn't trigger such a reaction and interfere with my entertainment. But I'm certainly a tiny market target in that respect. OTOH I'm part of a growing "market" that simply refuses to be cash cows for profiteers.

No amount of technology will alter the course of basic market laws. If you get too greedy, I'll simply steal it from you.

Posted: Jul 28, 2006 - 6:56am

One thing to watch out for is when the Internet and TV become one... this will really shake things up as we know it... TIVO for example will remove all commercials, so ... marketers will need to find other ways of pushing products.

One way I have seen that looks pretty cool is product placement within television shows (props, wardrobe etc)

Example: you are watching Friends and you like the dress that Monica has on - simply right click on your remote/mouse and you have options to buy merchandise from the show.

We in Marketing already have a ton of information on you and your web traffic, what we really need is Geographic data to Sync it up with (I need to know exactly how many males 21-35 with a HHI of $45,000 live in a region of New York so I can market something like Maxim or Girls gone Wild.

We are already watching everything you are doing online... we just need to take it a step further and tie in your TV

We will get this information with systems that "Customize your viewing experience" where if you like product A ... you will love product B, C, D

When we have you in that sales funnel... itÂs only a matter of time we can A-B test you to death and find out almost everything about you and hence market very qualified ads to you

With this very qualified traffic comes a premium price and hence the TV stations get very very wealthy.

Right now Video Ads on the Internet are becoming very popular
(click here)

This is going to change the way we interact online significantly and how much money will change hands in advertising. This year alone Search Engine Marketing advertising is surpassing magazine ads in revenue and will be worth over 10 billion dollars by 2010... But that is another thread all together

Posted: May 10, 2006 - 12:26am

BitTorrent? So that picture of the neo-hippie bothering you to "contribute" is really a big corporation? Figures. No more gratuitous uploads from me!

Posted: Apr 17, 2006 - 12:20pm

CanuckBeaker wrote:

son-of-a, I'll be more careful and thanks.
btw, I've gotten it to work (usenet) using Unison (on a Mac)! Thanks to both of you, my hard drive will surely run over, god bless the web!

Posted: Apr 17, 2006 - 11:47am

not-a-fish wrote:

I know for my ISP it is free, but it is not free for every ISP. The thing about what I use is it is not a huge retention server (like the conventional paid service at usenet.com). That means I have to download what I want shortly after it is posted because chances are it won't be there after a couple of days. The browser I use is Newsbin. This is not a free program, but there is a 30 day free trial. See if you like it, if so...we can work things out in ways that won't incriminate me.

Other free alternatives are: GrabIt and Xnews.

I will take this info to my secret lab, thank you much!

Posted: Apr 17, 2006 - 11:45am

CanuckBeaker wrote:

SecretText wrote:

Thats cool but does it work?

what if it's really small?

Posted: Apr 17, 2006 - 11:26am

not-a-fish wrote:

I love it when you talk nerdy to me.

sorry, this is from 2 pages back, but do you have to pay for usenet? I'm confused is it usenet.com, or what, please help I'm Cheap and I need to get things for free, it's my heritage!
thanks

p.s.
this is totally off the record.