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Radio Paradise Comments - Red_Dragon - Apr 20, 2014 - 4:11pm
 
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• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Apr 18, 2014 - 4:24pm
 
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Great Old Songs You Rarely Hear Anymore - KurtfromLaQuinta - Apr 18, 2014 - 12:12pm
 
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Basketball, anyone? Hello? Hello? - islander - Apr 17, 2014 - 9:54am
 
Who is this band? - Proclivities - Apr 17, 2014 - 9:49am
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - Alexandra - Apr 17, 2014 - 9:38am
 
That's good advice - Red_Dragon - Apr 17, 2014 - 9:08am
 
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HALF A WORLD - Red_Dragon - Apr 17, 2014 - 8:44am
 
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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Global Warming Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 26, 27, 28  Next
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KurtfromLaQuinta
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Posted: Apr 20, 2014 - 3:32pm

Interesting...




aflanigan
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Posted: Sep 11, 2013 - 7:34am

 kurtster wrote:


The US long ago achieved greater domestic results than were demanded by the Kyoto Accords, which we did not sign.

Inspite of the significant progress made, carbon taxes and credits are still demanded of us.  Why ?

 

I wouldn't call our greenhouse gas emission record over the last decade or two as constituting "significant progress". More like "significant meh".



The trend for the last two decades has been generally upward.

Let's suppose you're in a quarantine ward with a communicable disease, and despite taking modest amounts of medicine, your symptoms are getting worse. Would you ask if you could stop taking your medicine?
Red_Dragon
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Posted: Sep 11, 2013 - 7:20am

Esa's Cryosat mission observes continuing Arctic winter ice decline
kurtster
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 3:24pm

 aflanigan wrote:
 

You're raising a red herring. You're talking about whether government action to address a problem can work, or if we should rely on volunteerism/market forces to solve a problem.

That's not really relevant to the extent/existence of anthropogenic warming.

 

The US long ago achieved greater domestic results than were demanded by the Kyoto Accords, which we did not sign.

Inspite of the significant progress made, carbon taxes and credits are still demanded of us.  Why ?
Red_Dragon
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 12:56pm

 aflanigan wrote:
 

You're raising a red herring. You're talking about whether government action to address a problem can work, or if we should rely on volunteerism/market forces to solve a problem.

That's not really relevant to the extent/existence of anthropogenic warming.

 

aflanigan
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 12:51pm

 kurtster wrote:
Any person, faction or organization that says the only way or the best way to fix something is through taxes is immediately suspect in my book.  And quite frankly, easily dismissed as not being sane.

  

You're raising a red herring. You're talking about whether government action to address a problem can work, or if we should rely on volunteerism/market forces to solve a problem.

That's not really relevant to the extent/existence of anthropogenic warming.


aflanigan
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 12:47pm

 Steve wrote:

Gravity itself reminds me of its existence daily, and has every day for a few days shy of 58 years.
 
The earth is round because I've seen pictures of it. Unless the pictures are staged...
 
I don't need to waste any time weighing Rose's claims. I'm just assuming that all articles/reports/studies/propaganda have an agenda. Some are more factual than others, but I read them all with suspicion. Dig a little (or a lot) into the sources, and you'll find bias.
 
That was the point of my initial posting. I wasn't trying to score points for one side of the argument or the other. It's just... who do we believe?
 
The real point is - take care of the planet. {#Group-hug}

 
If all articles/reports/studies/papers etc. are propaganda that merely pushes an agenda, and worthy of dismissal, we are doomed to lead a pretty ignorant life.

That means Newton's Principia, which set forth the nature of the laws of motion and universal gravity that govern our planet, is just as suspect as Miss Ann Elk's Theory on Brontasauruses.

Who do we believe? I already answered that. Use your own judgement. See if the studies being cited are published in a peer reviewed journal. See if they actually say what the opinion writer citing them claims (or if s/he is paraphrasing/misrepresenting). See if the author welcomes and responds to critiques from other scientists. Much of the propaganda floating around today doesn't pass the sniff test.

Don't bother with movies or youtube videos. Seeking wisdom from a youtube video is like looking for diamonds in a cereal box. I would definitely ignore slick movies by Al Gore, just as much as I would ignore movies funded by the Koch brothers or the Heartland institute.  Seek out the work of scholars who don't get funded by lobbying groups.  Scientists have been studying climate change for over a century, long before it became a political football.

We won't be able to take care of the planet until we can fully understand what its vulnerabilities are, what causes them, and how best to reduce or eliminate them.


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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 11:39am


kurtster
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 11:05am

 Steve wrote:

Typo?

 

Yep, my bad.  Thanks.

And quite frankly, easily dismissed as not being sane.


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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 10:54am

 kurtster wrote:
Any person, faction or organization that says the only way or the best way to fix something is through taxes is immediately suspect in my book.  And quite frankly, easily dismissed as being sane.

 
Typo?
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 10:42am

Any person, faction or organization that says the only way or the best way to fix something is through taxes is immediately suspect in my book.  And quite frankly, easily dismissed as not being sane.


oldviolin
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 10:30am

 Red_Dragon wrote:



 
{#Wink}{#Lol}
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 10:29am

 oldviolin wrote:


I sweat Diet Pepsi

 

Steve
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 10:18am

 Red_Dragon wrote:


 
Opinions are like...
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 10:16am


Steve
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 10:04am

 aflanigan wrote:


You don't have to take anybody's word for it, dude. You can also ignore all the propaganda about gravity and the earth being round, if you like.


If you don't want to invest the small amount of time needed to weigh the validity of Rose's claims against the evidence offered by the people who have debunked his articles, fine. I think most people with even a smattering of math and science background can get a sense of who's making a persuasive case, and who is not.
The purpose of debate is to try and move towards an agreement based on something approximating reality. It sounds like you don't want the logic train to ever get to the station. Why engage in the discussion at all if you don't trust any evidence?

 
Gravity itself reminds me of its existence daily, and has every day for a few days shy of 58 years.
 
The earth is round because I've seen pictures of it. Unless the pictures are staged...
 
I don't need to waste any time weighing Rose's claims. I'm just assuming that all articles/reports/studies/propaganda have an agenda. Some are more factual than others, but I read them all with suspicion. Dig a little (or a lot) into the sources, and you'll find bias.
 
That was the point of my initial posting. I wasn't trying to score points for one side of the argument or the other. It's just... who do we believe?
 
The real point is - take care of the planet. {#Group-hug}
aflanigan
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 9:47am

 Steve wrote:

Debunked by which expert(s)? What is their patent bias? The volleyball game of which expert has the "facts" has left me ignoring all of the propaganda.

I'll simply conduct myself in a way to reduce carbon output any way I can, and endorse almost any effort to shift the world's population to do the same. I draw the line at the carbon taxing scam, and any other financially forced method of change. Higher prices for vehicles in order to pay for the technology to emit less pollution and use less fuel, okay. Rip off the public with carbon taxation - no f'n way.

 

You don't have to take anybody's word for it, dude. You can also ignore all the propaganda about gravity and the earth being round, if you like.


If you don't want to invest the small amount of time needed to weigh the validity of Rose's claims against the evidence offered by the people who have debunked his articles, fine. I think most people with even a smattering of math and science background can get a sense of who's making a persuasive case, and who is not.
The purpose of debate is to try and move towards an agreement based on something approximating reality. It sounds like you don't want the logic train to ever get to the station. Why engage in the discussion at all if you don't trust any evidence?
Steve
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 9:31am

 aflanigan wrote:


This has been thoroughly debunked, as has all the rest of David Rose's propaganda.

See HERE

Even nonscientific people understand the difference between the area of a sheet of ice and its volume. If Rose is really as knowledgeable as he represents himself, then he's obviously being deceitful on purpose, rather than ignorant. Don't go looking for him to provide data on the actual trend of sea ice volume; it won't confirm his patent bias.

 
Debunked by which expert(s)? What is their patent bias? The volleyball game of which expert has the "facts" has left me ignoring all of the propaganda.

I'll simply conduct myself in a way to reduce carbon output any way I can, and endorse almost any effort to shift the world's population to do the same. I draw the line at the carbon taxing scam, and any other financially forced method of change. Higher prices for vehicles in order to pay for the technology to emit less pollution and use less fuel, okay. Rip off the public with carbon taxation - no f'n way.
Proclivities
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 9:06am

 aflanigan wrote:


This has been thoroughly debunked, as has all the rest of David Rose's propaganda.
 
That's not this David Rose; is it?
 
aflanigan
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Posted: Sep 10, 2013 - 8:58am

 Steve wrote:
Which is it?

And now it's global COOLING!  Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% in a year

Some eminent scientists now believe the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century – a process that would expose computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.

 

This has been thoroughly debunked, as has all the rest of David Rose's propaganda.

See HERE

Even nonscientific people understand the difference between the area of a sheet of ice and its volume. If Rose is really as knowledgeable as he represents himself, then he's obviously being deceitful on purpose, rather than ignorant. Don't go looking for him to provide data on the actual trend of sea ice volume; it won't confirm his patent bias.
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