where are they now?

where are they now?

where are they now?

On this one, we agree.

I was lucky enough to see Midnight Oil (as a support act to The Tragically Hip) many years ago somewhere near Toronto.
Both bands were highlights for me in a great summer.

We be dancing...  love it...
 

There is or "was" a website with the numerous rants and raves of Midnight Oil. In this case he says: "Forty thousand years can make a difference to the state of things"

I had a friend in the '80's who was a member of a Pentecostal church that prayed in "tongues". He said that's what Peter Garrett was doing at the end of this song... any truth to that?

C'mon - you can have a discussion without the stereotypes and personal attack. I'm neither particularly patriotic, a parrot or a waffle. Not even sure what all that means. Have slit far fewer throats than you might imagine. People like me? I' live in the same world as you. We can have a better discussion than that.

Empires do indeed eventually fail - but why? Why did the great Meso American Empires, for instance, fail? Weakness against a stronger bunch of humans with fewer qualms regarding human dignity. Other native groups before Europeans showed up, but the formula is still valid. Since the colonization of North America, the extremely merciless conquerors have given way to a more pervasive, but diverse and humane government. When it falls, it will be to a less touchy feely, stronger group - which will probably not have the results you're hoping for re: human rights, freedom and standard of living. There's a good, even handed warts-and-all historical accounting of this cycle using the perspective of the British Navy from 1400's till the present in the book To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World by Arthur Herman. Bit of a slog at first, but captivating as you get into it.

Are you really ready to turn away from all the comforts, security and health advances of the modern world as brought to you by the folks of all nations that have held out against totalitarianism? It's a day you may, indeed, want to wait for. Poster ick commented "I often wonder how well we really live. I think Aboriginal societies had something over us that we really don't get and that is true freedom". Easy enough to find out. Throw off the connected economy of the world we live in and go it alone with nature. Let me know how that works out. Did you get a hot shower this week? Regular meals?

I don't have any illusions about freedom, all of this comes at a price. The indigenous groups you cite got he short end of the stick, as my ancestors and yours surely did at some point in the past. Hardly a survival issue though, not in any way genocide and definitely only a guilt trip for those who choose to assume guilt. Populations in real peril across the world might have a thing or two to say about the picture you paint of Canada's aboriginal population, and see it as belittling and disrespectful of the daily life and death struggles that are reality for them.

The point of all this is to comment that history is clear about the failure to protect freedom, security and the general health and welfare of populations against those who would enslave or oppress bodies and minds - like any sort of theocracy. Yes, there is a great temptation to localize and narrow focus when personal relationships are involved, but the shifting balance of power in the world doesn't notice that so much. A long term overview with good historical record is the best lens we have for seeing this issue.

POI: You might want to check your sources regarding British aristocracy comprising most of early US leadership.

I had a friend in the '80's who was a member of a Pentecostal church that prayed in "tongues". He said that's what Peter Garrett was doing at the end of this song... any truth to that?

I can imagine Romeo dancing in his hotel room

I had a friend in the '80's who was a member of a Pentecostal church that prayed in "tongues". He said that's what Peter Garrett was doing at the end of this song... any truth to that?

Wow – love the segue from Blue Oyster Cult!

Politics,  The man's a hypocrite...blood on his hands..this Australia calling.. Umberdog wrote: 

I love this whole album. Although the politics are different from those where I live, in the details they are pretty common human issues, and it fires up the rebel inside.

Still repeating that old canard are we?

That 'quote' was manufactured out of whole cloth by the ever-unreliable Peter Arnett (later known for embedding himself in Saddam's underpants).  It has no more relation to fact than the oft-disproved charge that "our ancestors gave blankets infested with smallpox to the natives".



P.S. - the song still sucks.

C'mon - you can have a discussion without the stereotypes and personal attack. I'm neither particularly patriotic, a parrot or a waffle. Not even sure what all that means. Have slit far fewer throats than you might imagine. People like me? I' live in the same world as you. We can have a better discussion than that.

Empires do indeed eventually fail - but why? Why did the great Meso American Empires, for instance, fail? Weakness against a stronger bunch of humans with fewer qualms regarding human dignity. Other native groups before Europeans showed up, but the formula is still valid. Since the colonization of North America, the extremely merciless conquerors have given way to a more pervasive, but diverse and humane government. When it falls, it will be to a less touchy feely, stronger group - which will probably not have the results you're hoping for re: human rights, freedom and standard of living. There's a good, even handed warts-and-all historical accounting of this cycle using the perspective of the British Navy from 1400's till the present in the book To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World by Arthur Herman. Bit of a slog at first, but captivating as you get into it.

Are you really ready to turn away from all the comforts, security and health advances of the modern world as brought to you by the folks of all nations that have held out against totalitarianism? It's a day you may, indeed, want to wait for. Poster ick commented "I often wonder how well we really live. I think Aboriginal societies had something over us that we really don't get and that is true freedom". Easy enough to find out. Throw off the connected economy of the world we live in and go it alone with nature. Let me know how that works out. Did you get a hot shower this week? Regular meals?

I don't have any illusions about freedom, all of this comes at a price. The indigenous groups you cite got he short end of the stick, as my ancestors and yours surely did at some point in the past. Hardly a survival issue though, not in any way genocide and definitely only a guilt trip for those who choose to assume guilt. Populations in real peril across the world might have a thing or two to say about the picture you paint of Canada's aboriginal population, and see it as belittling and disrespectful of the daily life and death struggles that are reality for them.

The point of all this is to comment that history is clear about the failure to protect freedom, security and the general health and welfare of populations against those who would enslave or oppress bodies and minds - like any sort of theocracy. Yes, there is a great temptation to localize and narrow focus when personal relationships are involved, but the shifting balance of power in the world doesn't notice that so much. A long term overview with good historical record is the best lens we have for seeing this issue.

POI: You might want to check your sources regarding British aristocracy comprising most of early US leadership.

Keep in mind that the British aristocracy (and the leaders of the US, comprised mainly of British Aristocracy) were committing genocides in North America and Australia long before Hitler was born. What shocks the Western world so much about Hitler wasn't that he committed genocide, but that he did it against white folks.

We came to live as we do (in the former colonies) because our ancestors gave blankets infested with smallpox to the natives, promised the peoples of North America and Australia land and then promptly took it away again, fenced all those people up in reservations, took their kids away from them, "educated" those kids in schools where clergymen and nuns beat them, humiliated them, and sexually abused them. Nowadays we make empty apologies to those people, while maintaining the conditions of poverty and squalor that continue to damage their culture. I don't know how bad it is in Australia, but in Canada, the conditions of the First Nations people are horrific. The current generation of First Nations children is being raised in foster care, by white people, because white people psychologically destroyed their parents with reservation schools and crushing poverty brought on by the appropriation of what resources they had. I'd imagine the Aboriginals of Australia have it just as bad, or worse. This isn't "manufacturing guilt", this shit is real. A real genocide (which is failing, thankfully, no thanks to us white folk), with real consequences and real guilt to be borne by real people.

Underneath your patriotic parroting and waffle, it's pretty clear that you've made peace with the fact that if your country is going to retain its hegemony, you're going to have to cut a lot of throats to do it. That's fine, I guess, but only because the American Empire (the last of the mighty Western Empires) is fading, and the day of reckoning for you and the people like you is coming. I for one, can't wait for that day.

Keep in mind that the British aristocracy (and the leaders of the US, comprised mainly of British Aristocracy) were committing genocides in North America and Australia long before Hitler was born. What shocks the Western world so much about Hitler wasn't that he committed genocide, but that he did it against white folks. 
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