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cc_rider
(Bastrop)
Posted: Feb 19, 2018 13:12
 

 LYS wrote:
Thanks for your comment about this, BillG.
 
BillG wrote:

I figure that she's describing an overbearing 'I'm just as macho as any man' kind of woman. I've heard the term used in that way before, and that fits better with the narrative of the song than the interpretation above.  If I felt she was using the term as speculated above then I wouldn't play it. 

 

 
Ah, interesting. Thank you.
c.
fhaisi
(Melbourne, Australia)
Posted: Aug 25, 2017 3:11
 

I always thought it was about Edie Sedgewick.
LYS
(nearby)
Posted: Jul 25, 2017 10:57
 

Thanks for your comment about this, BillG.
 
BillG wrote:

I figure that she's describing an overbearing 'I'm just as macho as any man' kind of woman. I've heard the term used in that way before, and that fits better with the narrative of the song than the interpretation above.  If I felt she was using the term as speculated above then I wouldn't play it. 

 


danfl75
(Gainesville FL)
Posted: Apr 23, 2017 8:44
 

This discussion reminds me of an old, great TV show: "Not that there's anything wrong with that". It what people say when they know they should be accepting, but the best they can muster is tolerance. Hmm, maybe that's what Martha was saying in another way. We all learn in our own time and way.
Grammarcop
(A place with fresh water and great beer)
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 11:35
 

I still like this. 
justin4kick
(The Netherlands)
Posted: Jun 02, 2016 7:08
 

 cc_rider wrote:

I think it is a somewhat derogatory reference to a transgendered person. Not a transvestite. Different things.
It so happens there is an RPeep who is transgendered and is a talented woodworker/cabinetmaker. She works in a small factory. I think of her as a dear friend, which is why that line bothers me no end. Nobody wants to hear their friend insulted for just being herself, right?

That said, I like Martha Wainwright, her brother, and even their Dad. Doesn't make that line bother me any less though.

Peace,
c.

 
You call qualifying others as "not my kind of people" as derogatory? I think Martha's lyrics are about an occasion that she has run into group of people that she isn't feeling comfortable with. Nothing wrong with that. So I really don't understand the discussion on this page.
ScottFromWyoming
(Powell)
Posted: May 02, 2014 13:55
 

 cc_rider wrote:

Definitely derogatory. Unless Martha herself is one (she isn't), it can't possibly be SELF-denigrating.
 
 
The song is first-person, but that doesn't mean it's about Martha. Doi.
 
I think the person in the story is talking about herself. 
Lacapella
(Lost in France....)
Posted: Feb 28, 2014 9:13
 

 BillG wrote:

I figure that she's describing an overbearing 'I'm just as macho as any man' kind of woman. I've heard the term used in that way before, and that fits better with the narrative of the song than the interpretation above.  If I felt she was using the term as speculated above then I wouldn't play it. 
 
My interpretation too, and I also think she's referring to herself. Martha's lyrics are often harder on herself than on others - even in B.M.F.A.
BillG
(Left Coast)
Posted: Jan 26, 2014 17:48
 

 cc_rider wrote:

I think it is a somewhat derogatory reference to a transgendered person. Not a transvestite. Different things.
It so happens there is an RPeep who is transgendered and is a talented woodworker/cabinetmaker. She works in a small factory. I think of her as a dear friend, which is why that line bothers me no end. Nobody wants to hear their friend insulted for just being herself, right?

That said, I like Martha Wainwright, her brother, and even their Dad. Doesn't make that line bother me any less though.

Peace,
c.

 
I figure that she's describing an overbearing 'I'm just as macho as any man' kind of woman. I've heard the term used in that way before, and that fits better with the narrative of the song than the interpretation above.  If I felt she was using the term as speculated above then I wouldn't play it. 
cc_rider
(Bastrop)
Posted: Aug 14, 2013 8:14
 

 softjeans wrote:
 Is it derogatory or self-denigrating? Or a nervy identification w/a outsider group? I'm not sure, but I think there's a ballsiness there that's actually kind of punk. 
 
Definitely derogatory. Unless Martha herself is one (she isn't), it can't possibly be SELF-denigrating.

Sure, it's ballsy and it's punk, but the line offends the people it refers to. Which itself is not especially unusual in any art form, but it's no less offensive. Again, I do not appreciate my friends (or anybody, really) being referred to in derogatory terms. I'm disgusted by any art that stoops to such antics. Martha is certainly not the most egregious, not by a long shot, and I think that line is an anomaly among her work.

I still like Martha. I'm not condemning her body of work over one line. I'm just saying, I know the people she's talking about: smart, strong people who have more courage than I can imagine. I do not appreciate hearing them dismissed so cavalierly.

Peace,
c. 
softjeans
(Upper Ojai, CA)
Posted: Apr 14, 2013 13:48
 

 cc_rider wrote:

I think it is a somewhat derogatory reference to a transgendered person. Not a transvestite. Different things.
It so happens there is an RPeep who is transgendered and is a talented woodworker/cabinetmaker. She works in a small factory. I think of her as a dear friend, which is why that line bothers me no end. Nobody wants to hear their friend insulted for just being herself, right?

That said, I like Martha Wainwright, her brother, and even their Dad. Doesn't make that line bother me any less though.

Peace,
c.

  Is it derogatory or self-denigrating? Or a nervy identification w/a outsider group? I'm not sure, but I think there's a ballsiness there that's actually kind of punk. 

cc_rider
(Bastrop)
Posted: Dec 05, 2012 8:51
 

 Byronape wrote:
It's "The chick with a dick and a gift for the gab".

I'm hoping that it isn't literal and is instead either a reference to a very masculine woman or a very effeminate chatty guy.

Nothing against transvestites, I just don't think very many will be working in factories.  But I could be wrong, according to my wife it happens all the time.
 
I think it is a somewhat derogatory reference to a transgendered person. Not a transvestite. Different things.
It so happens there is an RPeep who is transgendered and is a talented woodworker/cabinetmaker. She works in a small factory. I think of her as a dear friend, which is why that line bothers me no end. Nobody wants to hear their friend insulted for just being herself, right?

That said, I like Martha Wainwright, her brother, and even their Dad. Doesn't make that line bother me any less though.

Peace,
c.
Hannio
(Austin, TX)
Posted: Dec 05, 2012 8:46
 

 Byronape wrote:

It's "The chick with a dick and a gift for the gab".

I'm hoping that it isn't literal and is instead either a reference to a very masculine woman or a very effeminate chatty guy.

Nothing against transvestites, I just don't think very many will be working in factories.  But I could be wrong, according to my wife it happens all the time.

 
 

I attended a graduate seminar given by a female math professor from a university to the east of us.  There was something quite odd about her that I couldn't put my finger on.  (Besides the fact that she used tree, house, dog and cat as variables instead of x, y, sigma or epsilon.)   I mentioned it to the department secretary and she said it might have something to do with the fact that she was a he back when he/she was a graduate student.  That explained everything.
lemmoth
(NYC)
Posted: Dec 05, 2012 8:41
 

Always liked this tune.  Saw her open for Television once.  Overshadowed by her more famous family members but this is a fine tune.
WonderLizard
(2,755.46 mi. due east of Paradise)
Posted: Oct 03, 2012 15:27
 

fredriley wrote:
"Shake with the dick, for the giff and the gaff" - wtf? Best get my ear trumpet out...
 
Byronape wrote:

It's "The chick with a dick and a gift for the gab".

I'm hoping that it isn't literal and is instead either a reference to a very masculine woman or a very effeminate chatty guy.

Nothing against transvestites, I just don't think very many will be working in factories.  But I could be wrong, according to my wife it happens all the time.

 
 
In the business world it's an unflattering description of an aggressive woman who competes for equal footing with men. I'd suggest that it's the men's description...
Byronape
Posted: Jul 01, 2012 5:16
 

 fredriley wrote:
"Shake with the dick, for the giff and the gaff" - wtf? Best get my ear trumpet out...
 
It's "The chick with a dick and a gift for the gab".

I'm hoping that it isn't literal and is instead either a reference to a very masculine woman or a very effeminate chatty guy.

Nothing against transvestites, I just don't think very many will be working in factories.  But I could be wrong, according to my wife it happens all the time.

 
stackarukk
Posted: May 07, 2012 9:51
 

I hear ya...

 
MediaGrrl wrote:
I think she caught me in the right mood, cause this song is just carrying me along....
 


MediaGrrl
(Yank in Denmark)
Posted: May 03, 2012 6:40
 

I think she caught me in the right mood, cause this song is just carrying me along....
hippiechick
(topsy turvy land)
Posted: May 03, 2012 6:38
 

Do not like
meinthecorner
(Toronto, gridlock capital of the western world)
Posted: Mar 27, 2012 20:26
 

 rickf wrote:
{#Biggrin} Nice to catch this. Haven't heard for a while & I uploaded it :-) I feel rather blessed today as 2 of the last 7 songs were my uploads AND I was listening. 4th of July bonus (and I'm not an American) :-)

 
Thanks for the upload. I love this album of hers. It's been a while.